Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-11: (with DISCUSS)
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 16 October 2018 21:52 UTC
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References: <CABcZeBMJmM_NaRY3GzcV4HO+BB14ooqxJ9oGrrer6nx3ZAqMxw@mail.gmail.com> <20181011.091817.1727547509052700274.mbj@tail-f.com> <CABcZeBNZ+AMXXNu7C5nvxie6NmJdJ_6FbHJXtdkxnMAN3rNGHQ@mail.gmail.com> <20181016.144545.1184951335260453665.mbj@tail-f.com> <CABcZeBPaFXsven2XOC9+CdNqEfxvO4n0RivYuWCLXu9KGFYgDw@mail.gmail.com> <68a6fced-b67d-633e-fbbc-6b3d3fe4240d@gmail.com>
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:51:41 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBOkEYC7Y_8KB_O3VwX8KPMxKfdByqwtmYRRDA8=JY4p2Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: joel jaeggli <joelja@gmail.com>
Cc: martin björklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, NetMod WG Chairs <netmod-chairs@ietf.org>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount@ietf.org, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-11: (with DISCUSS)
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OK, after reading your explanation and the example, I think I am clearer on
the use case and the text you propose seems appropriate. Why don't you
provide a new ID and I'll clear my DISCUSS
-Ekr
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:05 AM joel jaeggli <joelja@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/16/18 06:00, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> > I'm sorry, but I still don't think I understand the security impacts of
> > this well enough to know if this text is OK.
> >
> > Can you provide a more detailed explanation of what XPath expressions
> > can and cannot do here? Happy to discuss live either on the phone or in
> BKK
> I'm probably grossly simplifying the goal here, but.
>
> xpath statement allow for referencing another path or applying
> constraints e.g. when / must (rfc 6020)
>
> the canonical example in 6020 being something like
>
> container interface {
> leaf ifType {
> type enumeration {
> enum ethernet;
> enum atm;
> }
> }
> leaf ifMTU {
> type uint32;
> }
> must "ifType != 'ethernet' or " +
> "(ifType = 'ethernet' and ifMTU = 1500)" {
> error-message "An ethernet MTU must be 1500";
> }
> must "ifType != 'atm' or " +
> "(ifType = 'atm' and ifMTU <= 17966 and ifMTU >= 64)" {
> error-message "An atm MTU must be 64 .. 17966";
> }
>
> http://www.yang-central.org/twiki/pub/Main/YangDocuments/rfc6020.html#xpath
>
> Imposing constraints using nodes in mounted modules is kind of a key
> application of schema-mount.
>
> > -Ekr
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:45 AM Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com
> > <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com <mailto:ekr@rtfm.com>> wrote:
> > > That seems like it's going to have some pretty surprising
> > consequences and
> > > at minimum needs more information in the Security Considerations.
> >
> > Ok. Howabout we add a paragraph to the end of the Security
> > Considerations section:
> >
> > Care must be taken when the "parent-reference" XPath expressions
> are
> > constructed, since the result of the evaluation of these
> expressions
> > is added to the accessible tree for any XPath expression found in
> > the mounted schema.
> >
> >
> > /martin
> >
> > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:18 AM Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com
> > <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com <mailto:ekr@rtfm.com>> wrote:
> > > > > I'm sorry but I don't understand this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does the externally visible behavior of any mounted module
> > depend in any
> > > > > way on these XPATH references
> > > >
> > > > Yes, but note that these XPath expressions ("parent-reference")
> are
> > > > read-only (config false in the YANG model). Thus they are set
> > by the
> > > > implementation, and used to inform the operator about the
> > environment
> > > > in which other XPath expressions are evaluated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > /martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ekr
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 6:38 AM Martin Bjorklund
> > <mbj@tail-f.com <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com <mailto:ekr@rtfm.com>> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 5:32 AM Martin Bjorklund
> > <mbj@tail-f.com <mailto:mbj@tail-f.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com <mailto:ekr@rtfm.com>>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot
> > position for
> > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-11: Discuss
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact
> > and reply
> > > > to all
> > > > > > > > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel
> > free to
> > > > cut
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > introductory paragraph, however.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please refer to
> > > > > > > >
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > > > > > > > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT
> > positions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can
> > be found
> > > > here:
> > > > > > > > >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > DISCUSS:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Rich version of this review at:
> > > > > > > > > https://mozphab-ietf.devsvcdev.mozaws.net/D3506
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > DETAIL
> > > > > > > > > S 4.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is worth emphasizing that the nodes
> specified in
> > > > > > > > > > "parent-reference" leaf-list are available in
> > the mounted
> > > > > > schema
> > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > for XPath evaluations. In particular, they
> > cannot be
> > > > accessed
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > via network management protocols such as NETCONF
> > > > [RFC6241] or
> > > > > > > > > > RESTCONF [RFC8040].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the security implications of this XPath
> reference
> > > > outside
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mount jail? Specifically, how does it interact with
> > the access
> > > > > > control
> > > > > > > > > for the enclosing module.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is no such interaction, since access control comes
> > into play
> > > > > > > > when some external entity accesses the data through some
> > management
> > > > > > > > protocol, and the nodes from the "parent-reference"
> > expressions
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > > > be accessed via management protocols.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The last sentence of the quoted paragraph was supposed
> > to make this
> > > > > > > > clear, but it seems we might need some additional
> > explanation?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, I think so. I guess I'm not clear on what the XPath
> > expressions
> > > > are
> > > > > > > for if they
> > > > > > > can't be accessed via the management protocols. How can
> > they be used?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These are XPath expressions defined in the YANG models
> > themselves,
> > > > > > such as "must" expressions or "leafrefs". The description
> of
> > > > > > "parent-reference" refer to them as:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [...] XPath
> > > > > > expressions whose context nodes are defined
> > in the
> > > > > > mounted schema
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /martin
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
>
>
- [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-ietf-ne… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… joel jaeggli
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… joel jaeggli
- Re: [netmod] Eric Rescorla's Discuss on draft-iet… Martin Bjorklund