Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Fri, 08 December 2017 22:21 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 14:20:57 -0800
Message-ID: <CABCOCHTS55b_b0X+WcQvMgtSg5GC-HzkTCMx5FN74jy+YwKFaw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Cc: Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines
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Hi, These changes are OK with me. Andy On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote: > Hi, > > Following up on this discussion (and hoping to wrap it up): > > I have created two wikis off of > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/netmod/wiki/WikiStart, one for 6087bis > content and the other for section 3 of tree diagrams. I also propose > the following changes to the tree-diagrams draft: > > To section 3 intro, add: > For the most current quidelines being developed, please see the IETF > NetMod Working > Group Wiki, see: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/netmod/wiki/WikiStart > > Add : > 3.2. Groupings > > If the YANG module is comprised of groupings only, then the tree > diagram should contain the groupings. The 'pyang' compiler can be > used to produce a tree diagram with groupings using the "-f tree -- > tree-print-groupings" command line parameters. > > And to section 3.3, start with: > > Tree diagrams can be split into sections to correspond to document > structure. > > For 6087 bis, I think section 3.4 gets replaced with something like. > > YANG tree diagrams provide a concise representation of a YANG module, > and SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG module > structure. Guidelines on tree diagrams can be found in Section 3 of > [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams]. > > These changes can be found at: > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-tree-diagrams/commit/ > 53919e0a4549c285758eb5aaaf02cf980269afff > > This leaves the intended status as the key open issue on the draft. > > Lou > > > On 11/17/2017 2:00 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > I am confused. I think there was some consensus to > > > > - include all tree related guidelines in the tree document, remove all > tree > > related guidelines from 6087bis and have 6087bis point to the tree > document > > (which it already does) > > > > The rest is pointless since AFAIK there is no wiki guidelines pages to > > point to and there is AFAIK nobody in place to actually maintain such > > a wiki page. Perhaps a wiki is the future but until future has > > arrived, we should not point to it. > > > > The other proposal I heard was to have a landing page that points to > > the current guideline work which points to the relevant documents. A > > wiki pointing to RFCs and ID, not RFC pointing to wikis. So this does not > > affect the documents. > > > > /js > > > > PS: I am happy to add pointers to guidelines as a section to the > > wikipedia page. > > > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 07:42:33AM +0800, Lou Berger wrote: > >> To circle back to this. My sense of this discussion (as contributor) is > >> (a) the tree diagrams draft should be updated to point to a "guidelines" > >> wiki page for "the most current guidelines" > >> (b) the tree diagrams draft should be updated to include a full set of > the > >> current tree related guidelines > >> (c) 6087bis should be updated to point to a "guidelines" wiki page for > "the > >> most current guidelines" > >> (d) 6087bis should have it's tree guidelines point to the tree diagrams > >> document -- in addition to pointing to the wiki > >> > >> Does this sound right? > >> > >> Lou > >> (as tree co-author) > >> > >> On 11/16/2017 11:04 AM, Mehmet Ersue wrote: > >>> The Wiki is useful as a starting point providing a collection of > pointers to guideline RFCs and the bis-revisions in development. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Mehmet > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh > >>>> Jethanandani > >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:39 AM > >>>> To: Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> > >>>> Cc: netmod@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines > >>>> > >>>> Other SDOs can and follow the work in IETF through the RFCs we > publish. > >>>> They do not follow wiki’s, unless the document itself says, “here are > the > >>>> guidelines, but if you are looking for the latest, go to this wiki”. > I therefore > >>>> would support the proposal outlined below. It gives the SDO a stable > point of > >>>> reference with a document, which gets updated occasionally, but also > allows > >>>> them to peak at what is coming down the pipeline. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks. > >>>> > >>>>> On Nov 15, 2017, at 6:53 PM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I liked the suggestion from Chris Hopps: > >>>>> > >>>>> I think that it was along the lines of ... > >>>>> > >>>>> The RFC contains a reference at the top that states that updates to > the > >>>> guidelines is available on a wiki at .... > >>>>> Every few years the guidelines on the wiki can be folded into a > latest > >>>> version of the guidelines draft. > >>>>> 6087bis looks to be 3.5 years old. Should folks, e.g. at BBF,, > IEEE, or MEF be > >>>> using the latest draft guidelines, or should then use the published > RFC until > >>>> 6087bis is actually republshed? > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Rob > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 15/11/2017 10:14, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There was a proposal in the meeting today to have the guidelines for > >>>>>> tree diagrams in a wiki, instead of having them in 6087bis or in the > >>>>>> tree diagram document. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Was the proposal really to have a wiki for just the tree guidelines, > >>>>>> or was the proposal to withdraw 6087bis from the process and instead > >>>>>> publish all guidelines as a wiki? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If it is the former, is it really worth it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Advantages with a wiki: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> + It can be updated more easily > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Some drawbacks: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - It can be updated more easily > >>>>>> (meaning they are less stable) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Wikis tend to not be alive after some time, and are not that > >>>>>> easy to find. Just try to find the various YANG-related wikis > >>>>>> we've tried to maintain over the years. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Links in RFCs also have problems. Sites are re-orginized etc. > >>>>>> As an example, the link to the security guidelines template in > >>>>>> RFC 6087 doesn't work anymore. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - People that are looking for a stable reference will have > problems > >>>>>> (I think Rob mentioned that IEEE still refer to RFC 6087 > (which > >>>>>> is understandable; that's the published version). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - Who maintains the Wiki, and what are the rules for updating > it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I suggest we have the tree-related guidelines (actually just a few > >>>>>> sentences) in the tree draft, and since 6087bis already refers to > >>>>>> this document it is not a big problem that guidelines are spread out > >>>>>> over several documents that are difficult to find. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /martin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> netmod mailing list > >>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>>>>> . > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> netmod mailing list > >>>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani > >>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> netmod mailing list > >>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netmod mailing list > >>> netmod@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >
- [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Robert Wilton
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Lou Berger
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Lou Berger
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Susan Hares
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] tree diagram guidelines Andy Bierman