Re: [netmod] submodules the hidden benefits

tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> Mon, 10 August 2020 09:23 UTC

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From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] submodules the hidden benefits
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:23:07 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/CAVh0LdW3y7MVuRGOSFYEy6I57Q>
Subject: Re: [netmod] submodules the hidden benefits
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From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
Sent: 07 August 2020 22:40

I agree submodules can cause confusion, but I also agree with Mahesh that they can be useful to partition things for people using the modules. Especially for huge models (e.g. router vendor models). You can jump right to a subsection of the data (a bit like a document with chapters rather than one huge chapter).

It can also be useful for consumers of the models for versioning (when you want to avoid multiple namespaces). If a model is made up of 30 sub-modules, it might be useful to know that the "bgp" part changed while the other parts of the model didn't.

<tp>

Jason,

Jan commented earlier that versioning happens at the module/namespace level in which case it would seem to me that all submodules will by definition have the same version so you cannot tell which submodules have changed,,

I think too that there is a fallacy in the belief that dividing up something large makes it easier to use, understand etc.  Divide up code by procedure, subroutine etc and if you can provide a parameter or two input, and one or two results output, and all the complexity of data structures, validation, algorithms etc and hidden out of sight, then you have simplified.   But DDL is not like that.  With a grouping or submodule, you need to know the internals, of what objects there are, how they are structured, what semantics they have, pretty much everything inside; it is just harder to find, to reference, to access because it has been wrapped up in something that gets in the way and tucked out of sight in some part of the I-D,
Rather simplification comes from having the right structure in the model, which some WG are good at,

Tom Petch

Jason

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 6:43 PM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] submodules the hidden benefits

A contrarian view:

I find the use of sub-modules helpful when I want to use separate files to maintain part of the module that is logically separate, while maintaining/restricting the use of them to a single namespace.
The fact that tools have a problem with trying to compile a sub-module can be addressed in the tools themselves.


On Aug 5, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:

Indeed
https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/26

´╗┐On 2020-08-05, 5:22 PM, "netmod on behalf of Vladimir Vassilev" <netmod-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of vladimir@lightside-instruments.com<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20vladimir@lightside-instruments.com>> wrote:

   On 05/08/2020 18.48, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:


I personally meanwhile believe that sub-modules add complexity with
little extra value but this view surely is not shared by others.

   +1. IMO removing sub-modules from YANG 2.0 should be on the list of
   proposed changes.

   /Vladimir

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