Re: [netmod] revised-datastores and commonality of schemas

"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Thu, 02 November 2017 21:13 UTC

Return-Path: <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185CA13F6E1 for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 14:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.92
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eqyO-4m_rVSz for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 14:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr50117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.5.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F333813F5D8 for <netmod@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=xDibQfWGaZWmfLdn6Id54SVv96x2Ph0eokFAxdEc00A=; b=IEqwuRd3LVX2gdqGbZut62AivIVFTYCsX3RK0W4YvOWuqCrdJL8yXKxtA8yKwKaA0LpTnxtRRZ41jetb/S+Ba3kEOHJwh7ZqBVvxK5TOPPncATkc/E1gbm0JdY+N8OSifGTUrwXaIebxqxKDs0SDONQKAvq0Zw/SpCMepn4PIrg=
Received: from AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.163.187.158) by AM3PR07MB1121.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.163.187.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.218.6; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 21:12:54 +0000
Received: from AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::746c:4eb1:1f6a:9527]) by AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::746c:4eb1:1f6a:9527%14]) with mapi id 15.20.0218.004; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 21:12:54 +0000
From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
CC: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] revised-datastores and commonality of schemas
Thread-Index: AQHTVBmF43E0D8ha602Z4L7V9HBU3KMBjGKAgAAGAQCAAANPUA==
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:12:53 +0000
Message-ID: <AM3PR07MB11246458D70D5355704191099B5C0@AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <076270A6-B2C1-44BC-8F02-F4E96675E76F@juniper.net> <AM3PR07MB1124D8DFADD0235A042364719B5C0@AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CABCOCHSDs6eJBTO8V_-=WYMMb+dDvPbDFxoQUwCO-RYOVS9aXA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABCOCHSDs6eJBTO8V_-=WYMMb+dDvPbDFxoQUwCO-RYOVS9aXA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jason.sterne@nokia.com;
x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.10]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR07MB1121; 6:wizCLcjA9x1FxCvZBM+dCftG4hluQbotSjpY43Y0w6N2jiu+oTWQCjWXYkJlONnDQRhGrEQ1bnjHegZCOEIEhllyPTt+066XteD+RayD1CuejzACLgiVAD4Cf7h1jbc9DwA6MB3pREBFBOz84ZAIiqW8zwyEUcuQqiNzt20NrTjHlpzBR5RyPR5luefKHK6R1djJ6A+LMVxRxqAWO+YojBay6jVLGjYS8dVa251euKVCFPyHDDEXtOs/9qGERyQuToQfLo66mSJ5MkjOCC4SsU5ugLZAM6vE9Wv1LLLx3dwsUFCM5yAL5lKPmQmC5w642dDf3ro4/wgBL/DEyDWOZGLovousZmbDZfq71McLEI4=; 5:FHSsA2uXUPPYDjxcqnv9lmbC9pWhdtj8VfHgeiOkIMtuhKtxpP9ZIm31fNhf/1HxsO/qrC2erEUkO400/SHJbLmQreTzdALZ386ZOOxKu9lduKI1WZiakWrxVGPgA89I8EihE1+EwYjBtt3Rzo/ArfV6mdeayCP4Qfv0M4vnLSM=; 24:9CV+tvgB7jAi6gNvQxzuepeFe1UWzx7u4PJ6l9kPJnEI1zKS1YC/yrqEZ/0cg7veIYTpKzNtlFgAM1jfCxyPE3KENaVmE+5tZqgyEwAuD0k=; 7:ULR1B+vnlDyBvLEkpgAked5L2DEDevrdNwZTZbL90T+ELKrVJakPZZwydeSkK+1eQoJJV2rPw6JbvopotTKduN9Etg9+PKSUE8x6soE57Szyw3nBppcGd4PndCXuZguW7ctckzKlwrl56DOFrE6OOdttcMkQ4NiGNCDix6+vYgBTF+YIPJdsb6d/9gEwnVsaayHjLcP1zwOhpHMwh+vyPb22jQ9QUfu+u7HLQZ6e/NBGeusi2cHayssoNbehk/PT
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f9690a1e-66f3-4f86-5e79-08d522367ba9
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(48565401081)(2017052603199); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1121;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM3PR07MB1121:
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(10436049006162)(138986009662008)(82608151540597)(95692535739014)(21748063052155);
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM3PR07MB11215A89B876DD6A63A228C69B5C0@AM3PR07MB1121.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(3231020)(3002001)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123558100)(20161123562025)(20161123555025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564025)(20161123560025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1121; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1121;
x-forefront-prvs: 047999FF16
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(189002)(377424004)(199003)(24454002)(13464003)(229853002)(68736007)(6916009)(6116002)(3846002)(102836003)(790700001)(2950100002)(7696004)(606006)(106356001)(5250100002)(105586002)(66066001)(9326002)(14454004)(316002)(53546010)(4001150100001)(6506006)(6436002)(3660700001)(33656002)(189998001)(3280700002)(5660300001)(54906003)(97736004)(81166006)(81156014)(2906002)(8936002)(8676002)(14971765001)(54896002)(7736002)(9686003)(6306002)(4326008)(101416001)(966005)(54356999)(8666007)(236005)(76176999)(575784001)(50986999)(478600001)(6246003)(53386004)(74316002)(55016002)(2900100001)(86362001)(19609705001)(53936002)(99286004)(25786009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB1121; H:AM3PR07MB1124.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM3PR07MB11246458D70D5355704191099B5C0AM3PR07MB1124eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f9690a1e-66f3-4f86-5e79-08d522367ba9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Nov 2017 21:12:53.9975 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB1121
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XwDQ87vFbKblgeaKCBEfmpSWvcc>
Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores and commonality of schemas
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:13:01 -0000

Hi Andy,

I can’t think of a specific problem immediately.  But I think it means templates would be considered as “applied” always right ?  Or do you see cases where templates don’t show up when <operational> is read ?

Special rules are likely to be needed for validation though.  A DS (with templates) won’t be valid unless you validate an exploded view.

Jason

From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 16:58
To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
Cc: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>; Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores and commonality of schemas

Hi,


On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>> wrote:
Hi Kent,
Yeah - I realize that I'm jumping ahead of where we are.  I'm a bit worried that we're making forward looking assumptions that we'll be able to stick to those constraints that we're defining in revised-datastores, and we may find that difficult later.
For this specific issue I suppose there is at least the possibility that we *could* have a common schema (and have operational be a superset).


What problem is caused by having a template appear in <operational> or <intended>?
If none (appears that way) then no special rules are needed for templates.
What if I have a special RPC to override part of a template, so the operational
value of the template is actually different than the configured value?
Since it is all proprietary at this point, better to leave templates for later.


Rgds,
Jason


Andy


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net<mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net>]
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 16:31
> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>>; Robert
> Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com<mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>>; netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores and commonality of schemas
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> All those details would need to be specified by some future templating
> drafts.  In this draft, there is only the provision for "configuration
> transformations" to keep that door open.
>
> Kent // contributor
>
>
> --
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
>
> Templates are something that may be problematic for this concept of
> common schemas across the running/candidate/intended DSes and then
> operational being a superset.
>
>
>
> The <running> DS needs to have both the template itself in the schema as
> well as whatever nodes are used to hold 'exploded' data.  But what about
> intended and operational ?
>
>
>
> For example, imagine we have the following instance data in a candidate &
> running DS:
>
> 1) a template that sets an admin-state leaf to 'enabled' in all interfaces
>
> 2) a set of 3 interfaces with a few leafs of config in them (address, etc)
>
>
>
> Clearly the schema for the candidate/running DSes contain both the
> template and the interface schema nodes.
>
>
>
> But does the schema for the intended DS actually have the template schema
> nodes ?   In theory it doesn't *need* to (since templates are exploded
> between running & intended), and it feels strange to have those in there,
> but I suppose it could have them.  If they are there, then a read of the
> intended would show "admin-state enabled" in the template *and* in the 3
> interfaces.
>
>
>
> Does the operational DS contain the template schema nodes ?  If yes, then I
> suppose we would consider all templates as 'applied' implicitly ?
>
>
>
> Rgds,
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Robert
>
> > Wilton
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:01
>
> > To: netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
>
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-
>
> > 06.txt
>
> >
>
> > So this version of the draft contains the small change that defines
> "datastore
>
> > schema" and describes the "datastore schema" of <operational> as being
> the
>
> > superset of the datastore schema for all the configuration datastores.
>
> >
>
> > There are two remaining issues open on the issue tracker
>
> > (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__github.com_netmod-2Dwg_datastore-
> 2Ddt_issues&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=Oh70ToB2vUTvtf
> OGlJFxq9b-VdJvIq7Nw6S69fNgcTA&e=):
>
> >
>
> > (1) Sign off that usage of RFC 2119 language is appropriate. Perhaps one of
>
> > the proponents of this change could please verify this.
>
> > (2) The email thread regarding Actions and RPCs in NMDA.  I will send
>
> > updated proposed text on the appropriate thread.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Rob
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 30/10/2017 18:04, internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>
> > directories.
>
> > > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.
>
> > >
>
> > >          Title           : Network Management Datastore Architecture
>
> > >          Authors         : Martin Bjorklund
>
> > >                            Juergen Schoenwaelder
>
> > >                            Phil Shafer
>
> > >                            Kent Watsen
>
> > >                            Robert Wilton
>
> > >   Filename        : draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-06.txt
>
> > >   Pages           : 38
>
> > >   Date            : 2017-10-30
>
> > >
>
> > > Abstract:
>
> > >     Datastores are a fundamental concept binding the data models written
>
> > >     in the YANG data modeling language to network management
> protocols
>
> > >     such as NETCONF and RESTCONF.  This document defines an
> architectural
>
> > >     framework for datastores based on the experience gained with the
>
> > >     initial simpler model, addressing requirements that were not well
>
> > >     supported in the initial model.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drevised-
> 2Ddatastores_&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=kntbgpHJnrByHY
> nP6-gIQawFyxzuB4qqA8a7sJ73Yro&e=
>
> > >
>
> > > There are also htmlized versions available at:
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drevised-2Ddatastores-
> 2D06&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=l8WerMNvfvgZVJ
> CnIEqxPofbgMz_Q_EzSiIoGbCQgNI&e=
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drevised-
> 2Ddatast&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=WCuOo1niAkysc
> QUKzIYmTuLvajFh0jn8MtmRmc6jjho&e=
>
> > > ores-06
>
> > >
>
> > > A diff from the previous version is available at:
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drevised-
> 2Ddatastores&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=L7nQJMiX3M_yX
> LSwPASZefUdW7YmA4ly9MiocXVGh40&e=
>
> > > -06
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>
> > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org<http://tools.ietf.org>.
>
> > >
>
> > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=ftp-
> 3A__ftp.ietf.org_internet-
> 2Ddrafts_&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=e_mQeyXZbxETy
> vr0-gcvkPeWqv4mScsFa5ueArTKoQQ&e=
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > netmod mailing list
>
> > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
>
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuh
> r6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=L2xQyj_938aVcv4
> QyFMHlNwXkX9tT8L46M1PXc6Lnh4&e=
>
> > > .
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > netmod mailing list
>
> > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
>
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuh
> r6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=L2xQyj_938aVcv4
> QyFMHlNwXkX9tT8L46M1PXc6Lnh4&e=
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuh
> r6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m
> =HmlA7hSACCJBmjNombXsdSLxNs5JnF3BrFaYXPWYosg&s=L2xQyj_938aVcv4
> QyFMHlNwXkX9tT8L46M1PXc6Lnh4&e=
>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod