Re: [netmod] Proposal to enhance the YANG tree output

"t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com> Wed, 20 September 2017 10:20 UTC

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From: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: <lberger@labn.net>, "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com>
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References: <c5352dde-4026-7549-bafa-30b19d7bb789@labn.net> <20170919.132947.358857445863848356.mbj@tail-f.com> <990b8722-7a48-46ce-3f5d-96bc5cb66075@labn.net> <20170919.154238.1738748131929616921.mbj@tail-f.com>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Proposal to enhance the YANG tree output
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com>;
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:42 PM

> Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>; wrote:
> >
> > On 9/19/2017 7:29 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > > Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>; wrote:
> > >> Martin,
> > >>
> > >> Speaking as a contributor:
 > >>
> > >> On 9/15/2017 7:40 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > >>> Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>; wrote:
> > >>>> On 15/09/2017 11:21, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > >>>>> Andy Bierman píše v Čt 14. 09. 2017 v 08:43 -0700:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Actually I liked the early pyang output that was concise and
easy to
> > >>>>>> remember.
> > >>>>>> The current format gets very cluttered and there are too many
little
> > >>>>>> symbols
> > >>>>>> to remember them all.
> > >>>>> I agree.
> > >>> Me too.  The current draft adds three new magic symbols: "mp"
"@" and
> > >>> "/".
> > >>>
> > >>> "mp" is for a mount point, and it can be generated directly from
the
> > >>> YANG modules.
> > >>>
> > >>> Directly under a "mp", "/" and "@" are used to indicate that a
node is mounted
> > >>> or available through a parent reference, respectively.
> > >>>
> > >>> I actually question the usability of "/" and "@".
> > >> I agree that / and @ are something new, and enabled by schema
mount.
> > >> There have been repeated comments in the RTG WG that there needs
to be
> > >> some way for vendors to convey what they have implemented with
Schema
> > >> mount
> > > If that's the requirement, using the tree diagram is probably not
the
> > > best way.  The tree diagram is intended to provide an overview of
a
> > > given (set of) YANG module(s).
> > >
> > > A perhaps better way to convey the information is to create a file
> > > with an instantiated /schema-mounts tree.
> > using what syntax? JSON and XML really isn't that easy for the
(human)
> > reader to parse.
>
> Either JSON or XML.
>
> > >> and this is one way to help convey (a) what is expected of server
> > >> implementors and (b) what client implementors should expect.
> > >>
> > > Hence the
> > >> current draft text:
> > >>
> > >> In describing the intended use of a module containing a mount
point,
> > >> it is helpful to show how the mount point would look with mounted
> > >> modules.
> > >>
> > >> The whole point of trees is to facilitate understanding for those
who
> > >> are less familiar with a model than the authors, and IMO that's
the
> > >> paramount perspective in this discussion.
> > > Fully agree!  I would say that we have to make sure that the
diagrams
> > > can be understood by people less familiar with the technology than
the
> > > authors.  Mixing schema and instance data does not help here.
> >
> > Can you propose an alternative?
>
> As I have written before, I think the "/" is not needed, so I would
> remove that.  I would also not list the nodes from "parent-references"
> in the same tree ouput.  It is not clear to me that this level of
> detail is needed in the tree, and - as noted before - it isn't even
> correct to list e.g. "interfaces" when the parent-reference in fact
> selects a single interface.
>
> > The routing WG participants seem to
> > find these useful, we can also ask there for broader input if you'd
like.
>
> One approach is to add the union of eveything that some people find
> useful.  In the end we have to look for WG consensus.  Several people
> have said that they prefer a less cluttered format.

A union is what might be termed the OSI approach to design, an approach
that led to ... well, ISIS and that's about it.

draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-18 has some 10 pages of tree structure
which are of little help to me in understanding the module.

With draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-12, the tree structure
runs to over 35 pages and then I think that the tree structure has
failed.

Adding more symbols will not help.

Less is More.

Tom Petch

> > >>> Since a parent
> > >>> reference can be very specific, e.g. one specific interface, it
isn't
> > >>> really accurate to show:
<snip>