Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Fri, 03 April 2020 20:36 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:36:04 -0700
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To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 9:56 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already > there yet). > > +1 (Noting that neither pyang or yangdump-pro handles this correctly right now) > /js > > Andy > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > > > > 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what the > behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether > require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the YANG.Next > issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > > > > 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it > may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although it > still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. > > > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > > Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but > > > > that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before right? > > > > I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with > the > > > "value space" argument. > > > > > > I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, it > > > doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use the > > > base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no > confusion > > > can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct. > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone > > > > has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting > > > > require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > > > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> > > > > > Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > > > > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; > netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> > wrote: > > > > > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true > > > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go > > > > > > against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. > > > > > > > > > > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change > > > > > with require-instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > > > > > > > > > > > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid > > > > > > values > > > > > > > > > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > > > > > > further restriction: > > > > > > > > > > > > If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > > > > > > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, > the > > > > > > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default > value > > > > > > compatible with the restrictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance > true) > > > > > > seems OK to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > > > > > > > (rwilton) > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > > > > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> > > > > > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > > > > > > To: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> > > > > > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > > > > > > > > (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Björklund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an > > > errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about > > > which > > > > > > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and > > > > > > > > > > ranges, > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the > > > > > > > > > > value space > > > > > > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that > > > > > > > > > > logic, then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > > > > > > type a { > > > > > > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. > "require-instance" > > > > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of > > > > > > > > > the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, > "Require-instance > > > problem"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > > > > > > restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at least > > > > > > > > confusing: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata > > > changes > > > > > > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions > applicable > > > to > > > > > > > > derived types. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a > > > > > > > > require-instance true with a require-instance false in a > derived > > > type? > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly > > > > > > > require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to be > > > > > > > require-instance true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen > gGmbH > > > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen > | > > > Germany > > > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <https://www.jacobs- > > > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <https://www.jacobs-university.de/> > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >
- [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (603… RFC Errata System
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Ladislav Lhotka
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Radek Krejci
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Radek Krejci
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 … Radek Krejci