[netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis

[Kent Watsen <[e-mail]>]

I wrote a lot of scripts to autogenerate the client-server suite of drafts, including some to cherry-pick sub tree-diagrams. 

I once quipped with Juergen that drafts that are primarily used to publish YANG modules were so mechanical, that a possible student project could be to write a tool called “yang2rfc”. 

Such a tool would take as input, e.g., an ordered list of cherry-picking-xpaths, and pre/post-text for each. 

Obviously there would be more input (e.g., an ordered list of YANG modules and text for each), but you get the idea.

My scripts were simple/hacky ‘bash’ but I would use Python (using Lada’s wonderful Yangson library) for a generic tool. 

I would love to write ‘yang2rfc’, but it would entail me volunteering free time I don’t have  ;)

Kent // contributor 


> On Nov 7, 2024, at 6:22 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> 
> Hi Italo,
> 
> Agree.
> 
> I don't know which tool Jürgen was referring to, but I'm aware of --tree-depth and --tree-path options in pyang (mentioned in the tree RFC, btw).
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> 
> Orange Restricted
> 
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Italo Busi <[e-mail]>
>> Envoyé : mercredi 6 novembre 2024 13:03
>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[e-mail]>;
>> Italo Busi <Italo.Busi=[e-mail]>; Jürgen
>> Schönwälder <[e-mail]>; Lou Berger
>> <[e-mail]>
>> Cc : Jan Lindblad <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>> Objet : RE: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Med,
>> 
>> IMHO, only the YANG code should be authoritative: the YANG tree
>> should only be informative to help the readers.
>> 
>> I see some pressure to IETF community to speed up the standard
>> process to deliver YANG models. IMHO, reducing the workloads to
>> the authors would help in this direction.
>> 
>> What is the value of having tools if their output needs to be
>> manually fixed?
>> 
>> Jurgen mentioned a tool that can automatically brake down
>> diagrams: having this tool available to the whole community would
>> be great
>> 
>> Italo
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [e-mail]
>> <[e-mail]>
>>> Sent: mercoledì 6 novembre 2024 07:55
>>> To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi=[e-mail]>; Jürgen
>> Schönwälder
>>> <[e-mail]>; Lou Berger
>> <[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: Jan Lindblad <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>>> Subject: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>> 
>>> Hi Italo,
>>> 
>>> The guidance is actually building on existing ones in Section 3
>> of [RFC8340]
>>> (with one qualification about on where to put long trees).
>>> 
>>> One of the reasons I expanded the text rather than simple
>> pointer to Section 3
>>> of [RFC8340], is to have a self contained section for the
>> authors where to look.
>>> 
>>> BTW, pyang output is not authoritative and I encourage to
>> review it. For
>>> example, pyang output for groupings with lists is broken!
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Med
>>> 
>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>> De : Italo Busi <Italo.Busi=[e-mail]>
>>>> Envoyé : mardi 5 novembre 2024 13:25
>>>> À : Jürgen Schönwälder
>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>> Lou Berger <[e-mail]>
>>>> Cc : Jan Lindblad <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>>>> Objet : [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> By reading the current text in section 3.4, I am getting a
>> bit
>>>> worried that we are increasing the workload of the editors of
>> the
>>>> YANG models drafts
>>>> 
>>>> While I fully agree with the initial statement, "YANG tree
>>>> diagrams provide a concise representation of a YANG module
>> and
>>>> SHOULD be included to help readers understand YANG module
>>>> structure", I am wondering whether authors need to do more
>> than
>>>> just copying the tree generated by pyang
>>>> 
>>>> For example, splitting the output of pyang into smaller
>> diagrams
>>>> requires editorial efforts and need to be re-done every time
>> the
>>>> YANG model is updated during the draft development
>>>> 
>>>> In some of the draft I have worked on, I have included some
>> YANG
>>>> tree snapshots but regretted this because they quickly tend
>> to
>>>> get out of synch during the draft development
>>>> 
>>>> What would be the drawback to always require the full data
>> tree
>>>> to be included into an Appendix, without introducing
>> different
>>>> cases?
>>>> 
>>>> Italo
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jürgen Schönwälder
>>>> <[e-mail]>
>>>>> Sent: martedì 5 novembre 2024 13:21
>>>>> To: Lou Berger <[e-mail]>
>>>>> Cc: Jan Lindblad <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>>>>> Subject: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since RFCs nowadays came in multiple formats, we do not
>> know
>>>> anymore for
>>>>> sure what a page is. The text and html renderings do not
>> seem
>>>> to be paginated
>>>>> anymore, the pdf rendering still seems to have pages. The
>>>> canonical format
>>>>> seems to be the xml file, which has no pagination either.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We should rely on good judgment of the authors, a SHOULD
>> NOT
>>>> rule looks
>>>>> like bureaucracy winning over trust into authors to make
>>>> appropriate choices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> /js
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 10:28:10AM +0000, Lou Berger wrote:
>>>>>> Med
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> See inline
>>>>>> On 10/29/2024 8:20 AM, [e-mail]
>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Re-,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The new guidance:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * characterizes what is long/too long tree
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In yesterday's session you also mentioned that rfc8340
>> didn't
>>>> define
>>>>>> what a long/large tree is.  I think you must have missed
>> it
>>>> in section
>>>>>> 3.3 of RFC
>>>>>> 8340: YANG Tree Diagrams
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Frfc%2Frfc8340%23section-
>>>> 
>>> 3.3&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166a
>>> e4
>>>> 
>>> 9a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%
>>> 7C
>>>> 
>>> 638664100806701855%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
>>> DAiLC
>>>> 
>>> 
>> JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=J
>>>> FhcfQiC3ypjhvrJOUO61Ige%2FOKAUEeQai3j4CISU90%3D&reserved=0> :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    As tree diagrams are intended to provide a simplified
>>>>>>    view of a module, diagrams longer than a page should
>>>> generally be
>>>>>>    avoided.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Isn't this sufficient.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * recommends against including too long trees in the
>> main
>>>> doc, while
>>>>>>> Section 3 of RFC8340has the following:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When long diagrams are included in a document,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> authors should consider whether to include the long
>> diagram
>>>> in the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> main body of the document or in an appendix.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> so want to change the existing non-RFC2119 formulation
>>>> "should .. include ..
>>>>>> in an appendix" to "SHOULD NOT include in the main body
>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>> document", is this correct?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *De :* Lou Berger <[e-mail]> *Envoyé :* mardi
>> 29
>>>> octobre
>>>>>>> 2024 12:34 *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>>>> <[e-mail]>; Lou Berger
>>>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>>>>> [e-mail] *Cc :* Jan Lindblad
>> <[e-mail]>
>>>> *Objet :*
>>>>>>> RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for this. The new doc says:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> These guidelines take precedence over the generic
>>>> guidance in
>>>>>>>>   Section 3 of [RFC8340].
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can you highlight what you see is the differences
>> between
>>>> the new
>>>>>>> section and rfc8340? (In other words, why is a
>> reference
>>>> saying
>>>>>>> authors should follow section 3.3 of rfc8340
>> insufficient?)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On October 29, 2024 4:25:44 AM
>> [e-mail]
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Hi Lou, all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    (1)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    There are RFCs that don’t include the full tree,
>> but
>>>> AFAIK there
>>>>>>>    is no RFCs that include a stable pointer for a
>> tree.
>>>> There are
>>>>>>>    I-Ds under development that follow that option, but
>> I
>>>> don’t think
>>>>>>>    this can be used as example as these are following
>> what
>>>> was in
>>>>>>>    rfc8407bis.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    (2)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    I paused to reply with the hope to hear more voices
>>>> about this
>>>>>>>    issue. Till now, no one else indicated preference
>> for
>>>> the stable
>>>>>>>    URL option.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    With that, I prepared a PR to remove that option
>> and
>>>> only leave
>>>>>>>    the appendix option.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    The full diff can be seen at:
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>>>> Fauthor-
>>>> tools.ietf.org%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-
>>>> 
>>> &data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae4
>>> 9a2
>>>> 
>>> ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6
>>> 38
>>>> 
>>> 664100806730122%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
>>> LCJQI
>>>> 
>>> 
>> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Hxg
>>> Z
>>>> jVYygwcP8VWH9I68YvHccEe8Z6huwBlKFqrSrV8%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> wg.github.io/rfc8407bis/draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> rfc8407bis.txt&url_2=https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.c
>> om/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.c%2F&dat
>> a=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff73
>> 08dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6386649
>> 58911869785%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV
>> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5H%2FCcG
>> PskipFgPgEKuNW2XsgNm9dhMY90ShfhLq%2Bbek%3D&reserved=0
>>>> om/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-wg.github.io%2Frfc8407bis%2Ftoo-
>>>> long-trees-
>>>> 
>>> &data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae4
>>> 9a2
>>>> 
>>> ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6
>>> 38
>>>> 
>>> 664100806745673%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
>>> LCJQI
>>>> 
>>> 
>> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8GCj
>>>> %2FKulj36AMYl%2Bca%2BmKxpLvrS42PaCjRwSdCZCNo4%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> bis/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 2Fauthor-
>>>> tools.ietf.org%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-
>>>> 
>>> wg.gi&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a16
>>> 6a
>>>> 
>>> e49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C
>>> 0%
>>>> 
>>> 7C638664100806761930%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
>>> wMDAi
>>>> 
>>> 
>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata
>>>> =6OjfnJAsoqVbAzqtvEUN93UyruW5essv7FQkEs%2FLvX0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>> thub.io/rfc8407bis/draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis.txt&url_2=https://ne
>>>>>>> tmod-wg.github.io/rfc8407bis/too-long-trees-bis/draft-
>> ietf-
>>>> netmod-rf
>>>>>>> c8407bis.txt>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Hope this captures the opinions heard so far.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Cheers,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Med
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    *De :*Lou Berger <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>    *Envoyé :* mardi 22 octobre 2024 17:29
>>>>>>>    *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>>>>>    Lou Berger <[e-mail]>; Andy Bierman
>>>> <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>    *Cc :* Mahesh Jethanandani
>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]; draft-ietf-netmod-
>> [e-mail];
>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>    Lindblad <[e-mail]>; Kent Watsen
>>>> <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>    *Objet :* RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Med,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    ----------
>>>>>>>    On October 22, 2024 8:22:47 AM
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Re-,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can you please indicate why you think this is a
>> bad
>>>> option? What
>>>>>>>    is the harm in recording an option that matches
>> current
>>>> practice?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Is there an example of a published rfc that points
>> to
>>>> the full
>>>>>>>    tree via a URL?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    As far as I read the discussion, no one was
>> agreeing
>>>> that this
>>>>>>>    approach was a good idea.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>>>    Lou
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I remember that you indicated that you are using
>> an
>>>> electronic
>>>>>>>    device to read docs. You can still browse the tree
>> from
>>>> the
>>>>>>>    supplied URL.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> De : Lou Berger <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>> Envoyé : mardi 22 octobre 2024 14:00
>>>>>>>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>>>>>    Lou Berger <[e-mail]>; Andy Bierman
>>>> <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>> Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani
>> <[e-mail]>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]; draft-ietf-netmod-
>> [e-mail];
>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>    Lindblad <[e-mail]>; Kent Watsen
>>>> <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>> Objet : RE: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Med,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>> On October 22, 2024 1:21:31 AM
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>
>>>>>>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Lou,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kent rightfully raised the point about the
>> troubles
>>>> with long
>>>>>>>    trees that exceeds the max line thing. I also
>> clarified
>>>> that, e.g.,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is separate and unrelated topic, talking
>> about
>>>> inclusion of
>>>>>>>    full trees in appendices as is currenty allowed for
>> in
>>>> rfc8340.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>    *   Existing specs have provisions for tree
>>>> diagrams to be
>>>>>>>    included “as a whole, by one or more sections, or
>> even
>>>> by subsets
>>>>>>>    of nodes” (8340)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes I'm familiar with that text :-)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>    *   There are RFCs out there that do not
>> include
>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sure, which is also allowed for in rfc8340
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is a MAY after all. We can't mandate that
>> every
>>>> doc MUST
>>>>>>>    include the full tree anyway. Are you asking for
>> that?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Absolutely not. I'm not quite sure what give you
>> that
>>>>>>>    impression. I just would like to see the additional
>>>> option removed
>>>>>>>    as I think it is a bad idea.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>>>>>>> De : Lou Berger
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Envoyé : lundi 21 octobre 2024 23:38
>>>>>>>>>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>> m
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>>;
>>>>>>>>>> Andy Bierman
>>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani
>>>>>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>
>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:draft-
>>>> ietf-netmod-
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> [e-mail]%3cmailto:draft-ietf-
>>>>> [e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    Jan
>>>>>>>>>> Lindblad
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>> Kent
>>>>>>>    Watsen
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Objet : Re: [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Looking at today's (-20) version of the
>> document, I
>>>> still see
>>>>>>>>>> stable pointers as an option.  I really don't
>> see
>>>> the support for
>>>>>>>>>> this in the overall discussion and I personally
>>>> think such is a
>>>>>>>>>> *bad* idea.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'd prefer that any references to the "stable
>>>> pointer" option be
>>>>>>>>>> removed from the document.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/15/2024 2:22 AM,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>
>>>>>>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> RFC8340 leaves it to the authors to include
>> it or
>>>> not. It uses
>>>>>>>>>> statements such as "When long diagrams are
>> included
>>>> in a document,
>>>>>>>>>> .."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> An outcome of the discussion is that we can't
>>>> impose one option
>>>>>>>>>> here. For example, the current situation is
>> that we
>>>> do already
>>>>>>>>>> have RFCs (RFC7407, RFC9182, RFC9291, etc.)
>> that do
>>>> not include
>>>>>>>>>> the full trees because these are too long, the
>>>> narrative text is
>>>>>>>>>> good enough, the document itself is +150 pages,
>>>> etc. Also,
>>>>>>>>>> including pages and pages of text that exceeds
>> the
>>>> max line is not
>>>>>>>>>> convenient for readers.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The new guidelines include a provision for
>> when
>>>> the full tree is
>>>>>>>>>> not included for better consistency among
>> published
>>>> documents.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> De : Andy Bierman
>>>>>>>    <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>> Envoyé :
>>>>>>>    lundi 14
>>>>>>>>>> octobre 2024
>>>>>>>>>>>> 18:24 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>> m
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc : Mahesh Jethanandani
>>>>>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>
>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>    Lou Berger
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>> draft-ietf-
>>>>> netmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>> Jan
>>>>>>>    Lindblad
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>> Kent
>>>>>>>>>> Watsen
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>    Objet : Re: [netmod] WGLC on
>>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO we do not need new procedures to save
>> the
>>>> reader from a
>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>> pages of YANG tree diagram text.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the only option that makes sense to
>> me:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>      *  Include the full tree in an appendix.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 10:19 PM
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>> m
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mahesh,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this refers to the main body per the
>>>> structure in
>>>>>>>>>>>> rfc7322#section-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Updated accordingly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The diff is available using the same link:
>>>> Diff:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt - draft-
>> ietf-
>>>> netmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> rfc8407bis.txt
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 2
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 252><ht
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> tps://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%252
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faut
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hor-
>>>>>>>>>>>> tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>> Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f
>>>> 
>>> 5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806792761%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e
>>> yJWIjo
>>>> 
>>> 
>> iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7
>>>> 
>>> C%7C%7C&sdata=VfNCeAL5MNmPRmZYSMuY2APsbuR%2FXbRYhC2TWipVpvg
>>> %3D&re
>>>> 
>> served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt
>> p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>> 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958911924076%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>> 7C%7C&sdata=srDAAXFqK4dOzNJHzcApv6NMiwPv36LcFTKkPc8bdMw%3D&reserv
>> ed=0
>>>> 
>>> 
>> p%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40o
>>> r
>>>> 
>>> 
>> ange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc
>>> 4
>>>> 
>>> 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806808244%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>> bGZsb3
>>>> 
>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
>>>> %3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yMttcTY8gRLF31qD4UK%2Bw3%2BNDp%2FiV
>>> hi%2FMk
>>>> 8%2FYXGlvvw%3D&reserved=0>%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dht
>>>>> tps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-
>>>>>>>>>> wg.gi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thub.io
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> Fthub.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a
>>> 8f
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C0%7C638664100806824255%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>>> C4wLj
>>>> 
>>> 
>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> &sdata=TyRjiAesKMMSGJX5BUXymM1unzDMnvZSEYBVDleJDVA%3D&reserve
>>> d=0>
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> Fthub.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a
>>> 8f
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C0%7C638664100806839350%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>>> C4wLj
>>>> 
>>> 
>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> &sdata=LDY0a4Hv3bqgBGjSDgFbt1Eq%2BVjvrcjV6uG0I4djg0U%3D&reserved=
>>>> 0>%2Frfc8407bis%2Fdraft-ietf-netmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> rfc8407bis.txt%26url_2%3Dhttp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> s%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-wg.github.io
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> F2fnetmod-
>>>> 
>>> wg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7
>>> Cc
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d2
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806854954%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiMC
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7
>>>> 
>>> C%7C&sdata=Sy9yOWcDBmeOtu3BcxAg5NWdvaLH9%2Fp%2B%2F4PdutN6ST
>>> s%3D&r
>>>> eserved=0><http://2fnetmod-
>>>>> wg.github.io/>%2Frfc8407bis%2Flong-
>>>>>>>>>> trees%2Fdraft-
>>>>>>>>>>>> ietf-n
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> rfc8407bis.txt&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>> %7C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806872719%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C&sdata=MP1BKR1%2BEOHWN5ViuE%2BRJiUoQ0%2FvGDGrKrsiag3vqJo
>>> %3D&
>>>> 
>> reserved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=h
>> ttp%3A%2F%2Fh%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>> 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958911972258%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>> 7C%7C&sdata=dsC6ETRgsXPPvP0Mu3N7b56z2%2FcnzA77LJI3L5YONxc%3D&rese
>> rved=0
>>>> 
>>> ttp%3A%2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%
>>> 40or
>>>> 
>>> 
>> ange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc
>>> 4
>>>> 
>>> 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806888862%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>> bGZsb3
>>>> 
>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
>>>> %3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GQG6iITz%2FV1bgRRbe3yiEjJzZQl1SbzbYmuH
>>> xTf9
>>>> GRA%3D&reserved=0>%7C3
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 60a053d61314c7851bc08dcec6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>>>>>> %7C0
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> %7C0%7C638645198411517106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>>> 8e
>>>>> yJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>>>>>>>>>>>> MDAi
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata
>>>>> =
>>>>>>>>>>>> PUXU
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> FFa2G1oGYjtnRYtC9hFJkRu5Nx%2FISQob3izoYds%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *De :* Mahesh Jethanandani
>>>>>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    *Envoyé
>>>>>>>>>> :*
>>>>>>>>>>>> samedi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 octobre 2024 01:54 *À :* BOUCADAIR
>> Mohamed
>>>> INNOV/NET
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>> m
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>>
>>>>>>>    *Cc :* Lou Berger
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:draft-
>>>> ietf-netmod-
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> [e-mail]%3cmailto:draft-ietf-
>>>>> [e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindblad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>> Kent
>>>>>>>    Watsen
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Objet
>>>>>>>>>>>> :* Re:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [netmod] WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-
>> rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Med,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speaking as a contributor ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024, at 8:47 AM,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lou, Kent, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taking into account the feedback received
>> so
>>>> far, I suggest
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OLD:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      YANG tree diagrams provide a concise
>>>> representation of a
>>>>>>>>>> YANG
>>>>>>>>>>>>> module
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      and SHOULD be included to help readers
>>>> understand YANG
>>>>>>>>>> module
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      structure.  If the complete tree
>> diagram
>>>> for a module
>>>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      (more than 2 pages, typically), the
>> diagram
>>>> SHOULD be
>>>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      several smaller diagrams (a.k.a
>>>> subtrees).  For the
>>>>>>>>>> reader's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      convenience, a subtree should fit
>> within a
>>>> page.  If the
>>>>>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      tree diagram is too long (more than 5
>>>> pages, typically)
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      groupings unexpanded (Section 2.2 of
>>>> [RFC8340]), the
>>>>>>>>>> authors
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      NOT include it in the document.  A
>> stable
>>>> pointer to
>>>>>>>>>> retrieve
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      full tree MAY be included.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NEW:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      YANG tree diagrams provide a concise
>>>> representation of a
>>>>>>>>>> YANG
>>>>>>>>>>>>> module
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      and SHOULD be included to help readers
>>>> understand YANG
>>>>>>>>>> module
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      structure.  If the complete tree
>> diagram
>>>> for a module
>>>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      (more than 2 pages, typically), the
>> diagram
>>>> SHOULD be
>>>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      several smaller diagrams (a.k.a
>>>> subtrees).  For the
>>>>>>>>>> reader's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      convenience, a subtree should fit
>> within a
>>>> page.  If the
>>>>>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      tree diagram is too long (more than 5
>>>> pages, typically)
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      groupings unexpanded (Section 2.2 of
>>>> [RFC8340]), the
>>>>>>>>>> authors
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      NOT include it in the main
>>>> document.  Instead, authors MAY
>>>>>>>>>>>> consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      the following options:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mj] Not clear what you mean by “main
>>>> document”. Do you
>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> normative section of the document? If so,
>>>> please edit it to
>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *  Provide only a stable pointer to
>>>> retrieve the full
>>>>>>>>>> tree.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>         tree is thus not provided at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *  Include a note about how to generate
>> the
>>>> full tree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *  A combination of the first and
>> second
>>>> bullets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      *  Include the full tree in an
>> appendix.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For convenience:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - Diff: Diff: draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis.txt -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis.txt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 2
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
>>>> 252><ht
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> tps://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%252
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fauthor-
>>>>>>>>>>>> tools.ietf.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>> Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f
>>>> 
>>> 5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806918991%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e
>>> yJWIjo
>>>> 
>>> 
>> iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7
>>>> 
>>> C%7C%7C&sdata=jTBhYuGiw%2Fot%2F4cGtpVSxSM7HkT3B%2FcvR6IRzblm2w
>>> A%3
>>>> 
>> D&reserved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url
>>>> 
>>> 
>> =http%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 40orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40
>>> b
>>>> 
>>> fbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806934052%7CUnknown%7CT
>>> WFpbG
>>>> 
>> Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
>>>> 
>>> 6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=trBrGAzFEGEIhfh4%2BPNs4Vjjd%2BXNn
>>> %2B0o
>>>> vwTL5arrozQ%3D&reserved=0>%2Fapi%2Fiddiff%3Furl_1%3Dht
>>>>> tps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> wg.github.io
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> 
>> Fwg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806949696%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C&sdata=VxytcQup6rnh%2FZdw8zTKNomLIDj8mk4vrRxiZ6cOK58%3D&r
>>> ese
>>>> 
>> rved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%
>>>> 
>>> 3A%2F%2Fwg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40oran
>>> ge
>>>> 
>> .com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b
>>> 92
>>>> 
>>> 53b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806964621%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
>>> b3d8ey
>>>> 
>> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%
>>>> 
>>> 7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YjrpxzPL59hd0PEyhqgjVmVN5hNWKc2FVP1MwztkFT
>>> 4%3D
>>>> &reserved=0>%2Frfc8407bis%2Fdraft-
>>>>> ietf-netmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> rfc8407bis.txt%26url_2%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnetmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> wg.github.io
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> 
>> Fwg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806980907%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C&sdata=86zhJlYv7u%2BrPmp%2BTsXMdRn%2BOxkbcEXX2VKcPqgHH50
>>> %3D&
>>>> 
>> reserved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=h
>> ttp%3A%2F%2Fh%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>> 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958912038137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>> 7C%7C&sdata=%2FwASORd9LSWOSjEj%2BvjYWLyR6uKdlgtMZmBZziYjIgE%3D&re
>> served=0
>>>> 
>>> ttp%3A%2F%2Fwg.github.io%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40
>>> or
>>>> 
>>> 
>> ange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc
>>> 4
>>>> 
>>> 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100806995782%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>> bGZsb3
>>>> 
>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
>>>> %3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2xF4EN8QJcX5rpTjAiSrV%2FdRHcw6gnWjZKB
>>> MhsnN
>>>> MOk%3D&reserved=0>%2Frfc8407bis%2Flong-
>>>>> trees%2Fdraft-ietf-netmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> rfc8407bis.txt&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>> %7C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807010471%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C&sdata=SsdXIpT81tZewnxw0uJjfqKIsV8qoG3kPsNuQ96nwbw%3D&rese
>>> rv
>>>> 
>> ed=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A
>>>> %2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40ora
>>> nge.c
>>>> 
>>> om%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b92
>>> 53
>>>> 
>>> b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807031840%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
>>> d8eyJW
>>>> 
>> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l46DAl8atRK2yRPhCwsu%2F54yT9aztTveEZL3qGIDEKg%
>>> 3D
>>>> &reserved=0>%7C360
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> a053d61314c7851bc08dcec6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20
>>>>> %7
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> C0%7C0%7C638645198411540339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
>>>>> MC4wLj
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7
>>>>> C&
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> sdata=68CtKMDgxzWjl4IsKqxJlSLpvOHAflb0Cv5TQFwExN0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - PR:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>>>> F
>>>>>>>>>>>> gith
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ub.com
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> Fub.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4a
>>> 8f5
>>>> 
>>> 
>> a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C
>>> 0
>>>> %7C0%7C638664100807055898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
>>> MC4wLjA
>>>> 
>>> 
>> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C
>>> &
>>>> 
>>> 
>> sdata=KY1spdVRlh3ukyN06ph3gISPBzV%2Becgy0s6rgvRt69Y%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
>>>> 
>>> 2Fub.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc4
>>> a8f
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C0%7C638664100807071783%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>>> C4wLj
>>>> 
>>> 
>> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7
>>> C
>>>> 
>>> &sdata=QYf6v2qoioeM9Ox6IWkxtRuZzk9boKyANJueV6ewJyA%3D&reserved=
>>> 0>
>>>> %2Fnetmod-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>> wg%2Frfc8407bis%2Fpull%2F70%2Ffiles&data=05%7C02%7Cmoh
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> amed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>> %7C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807090818%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 7C%7C&sdata=CvKlxRdy7CxnoLaEzKoXHjxj995wEoTwiyUEfasSN3k%3D&reserv
>>>> 
>> ed=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A
>>>> %2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40ora
>>> nge.c
>>>> 
>>> om%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b92
>>> 53
>>>> 
>>> b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807112214%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
>>> d8eyJW
>>>> 
>> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C
>>>> 
>>> 0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=C2zNv8IfYZBf7W%2FNiU9bC33XAo%2F2BqpSI7QbmRq
>>> dHBE%
>>>> 3D&reserved=0>%7C360a053d61314c7851bc
>>>>> 08dcec6c99f5%7C9
>>>>>>>>>>>> 0c7a
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638645198411557810%7CUn
>>>>> known
>>>>>>>>>>>> %7CT
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
>>>> J
>>>>>>>>>>>> XVCI
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BkYIcnZV7Wwi4tUS6uOObRMUMcdt4
>>>>> xxyiNBOW
>>>>>>>>>>>> QXGp
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wE%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Better?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *De :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Envoyé :* mercredi 2 octobre 2024 11:13 *À
>> :*
>>>> 'Lou Berger'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:draft-
>>>> ietf-netmod-
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> [e-mail]%3cmailto:draft-ietf-
>>>>> [e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    Jan Lindblad (jlindbla)
>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>> *Cc
>> :*
>>>>>>>    Kent Watsen
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Objet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :* RE: [netmod] Re: WGLC on draft-ietf-
>> netmod-
>>>> rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lou,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - Keeping long trees in the main
>> document
>>>> is really not
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      digest a module. I also know by
>> experience
>>>> that this
>>>>>>>>>> raises
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      including from the IESG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - Keeping long trees that exceed 69
>> line
>>>> max in the main
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      appendix is really hard to follow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - There are already RFCs out there do
>> not
>>>> include long
>>>>>>>>>> trees,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      note about how to generate it. The
>>>> narrative text uses
>>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>>>>>> snippets to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      help readers walk through the model.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      - Some consistency is needed in how we
>>>> document our
>>>>>>>>>> modules +
>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      authors with clear guidance (e.g.,
>>>> characterize what is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tree)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m afraid that we can’t simply leave the
>> OLD
>>>> 8407 as it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That’s said, I’m only the pen holder and
>> will
>>>> implement
>>>>>>>>>> whatever
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WG decides here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Med
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *De :* Lou Berger
>>>>>>>    <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>> *Envoyé :*
>>>>>>>    mardi 1
>>>>>>>>>> octobre 2024
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13:37 *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>> m
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>>;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    [e-mail]<mailto:draft-
>>>> ietf-netmod-
>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>>>>    <mailto:draft-ietf-netmod-
>>>> [e-mail]%3cmailto:draft-ietf-
>>>>> [e-mail]>>;
>>>>>>>    Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lindblad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (jlindbla)
>>>> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc :* Kent Watsen
>>>>>>>    <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:[e-mail]>>>
>>>>>>>    *Objet :* Re:
>>>>>>>>>> [netmod]
>>>>>>>>>>>> Re:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WGLC on draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8407bis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Med, Jan, WG,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to say that I read the discussion
>>>> concluding with to
>>>>>>>>>> NOT
>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current recommendation, see
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>>>> F
>>>>>>>>>>>> mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> archive.ietf.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>> Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.co
>>>> 
>>> 
>> m%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253
>>> b
>>>> 
>>> 6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807140589%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>>> 8eyJWI
>>>> 
>>> 
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0
>>>> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=qsNMvTvkfOvGnRenMhLSwGgBOSWtX03vX6TVEou7X
>>> GQ%3D&re
>>>> 
>> served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt
>> p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>> 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958912126893%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>> 7C%7C&sdata=QZrD4vgLmhDx6Krg1Vsik9zoLZCmM6M2%2Bu%2Fx5V5DaAI%3D&re
>> served=0
>>>> 
>>> 
>> p%3A%2F%2Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%4
>>> 0
>>>> 
>>> 
>> orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bf
>>> b
>>>> 
>>> c48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807156836%7CUnknown%7CTW
>>> FpbGZs
>>>> 
>> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
>>>> 
>>> n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=I7PQXzYGTMNQfvIk15GrIYm4H%2FYzuVVoIJ
>>> vHpZ
>>>> 4CTps%3D&reserved=0>%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fnetmo
>>>>> d%2F0Q0YiyNi15V-
>>>>>>>>>> Szzf5awLVh-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 15_c%2
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com
>>> %7C
>>>> 
>>> 
>> c4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>>>> 
>>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807173045%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ
>>> WIjoiM
>>>> 
>>> 
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C&sdata=K9HTQS6eEvEHh0gI%2BanvbwXOFrdV7idWLzetVngUB2g%3D&
>>> rese
>>>> 
>> rved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%
>>>> 
>>> 3A%2F%2F40orange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40or
>>> ange
>>>> 
>> .com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b
>>> 92
>>>> 
>>> 53b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807192489%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
>>> b3d8ey
>>>> 
>> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%
>>>> 
>>> 7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=D6QMha6Uy%2BWaRh%2BDKPWBt%2FG6RJ3%2BZYI
>>> asNLytR
>>>> UxlFY%3D&reserved=0>%7C360a053d61314c78
>>>>>>>>>>>> 51bc
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 08dcec6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C63864
>>>>> 519
>>>>>>>>>>>> 8411
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 573595%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
>>>>> uMzI
>>>>>>>>>>>> iLCJ
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FuJbQGSOk7%2Fk
>>>>> MXATR
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1fn3
>>>>>>>>>>>>> YScP4MBfkRWYvYXz90NyNI%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I personally use an ereader (or computer)
>> more
>>>> than paper and
>>>>>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to go to a static URL -- probably when I'm
>> off
>>>> line -- does
>>>>>>>>>> NOT
>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like something we should be
>>>> recommending.  Furthermore, I'm
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what our process has to say about having
>> the
>>>> HTML include
>>>>>>>>>> *text
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content* that is not in the text version.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again just my perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do others think? do they feel strongly
>>>> that this change
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> current recommendation (in RFC8340) of
>> having
>>>> long trees in
>>>>>>>>>>>> appendixes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good or bad idea? (Yes, I'm in the
>>>> strongly against
>>>>>>>>>> camp.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/2024 4:24 AM,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> <mailto:[e-mail]%3cmailto:mohamed.boucadair@
>>>>> orange.com>>
>>>>>>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lou,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      1. The comment that triggered the
>> change
>>>> and companion
>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      this was discussed and changes proposed
>> can
>>>> be seen at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
>>>> F
>>>>>>>>>>>> mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> archive.ietf.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>> Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.co
>>>> 
>>> 
>> m%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253
>>> b
>>>> 
>>> 6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807218227%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>>> 8eyJWI
>>>> 
>>> 
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0
>>>> 
>> %7C%7C%7C&sdata=PB4vsiUa8qxziZ7Ukkxl3TdYCYDtY0a8CYG6TxY4Dhg%3D
>>> &re
>>>> 
>> served=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=htt
>> p%3A%2F%2Fhtt%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>> 2e2ccd3b7ca947d5ff7308dcfe65721f%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d
>> 20%7C0%7C0%7C638664958912169243%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%
>> 7C%7C&sdata=zefWbioKHBvnvFu27ZcUJiVFcQGf%2FxQph2ydRm3cXUk%3D&rese
>> rved=0
>>>> 
>>> 
>> p%3A%2F%2Farchive.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%4
>>> 0
>>>> 
>>> 
>> orange.com%7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bf
>>> b
>>>> 
>>> c48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807236040%7CUnknown%7CTW
>>> FpbGZs
>>>> 
>> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
>>>> 
>>> n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KbINQdJdgp1vtJFViA%2B7gXuGvSShxJeaetCl
>>> %2
>>>> FlP87Ws%3D&reserved=0>%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fnetmo
>>>>> d%2F-
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> b2HX0XUK49qJB19LHu6MC0D9zc%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucada
>>>>> ir%40o
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> range.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2
>>>> 
>>> Frange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C
>>> c4a
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%
>>>> 
>>> 7C0%7C0%7C638664100807256811%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo
>>> iMC4w
>>>> 
>>> 
>> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%
>>>> 
>>> 7C&sdata=TtLqWyyWb%2BwejIBTL1Vnbw1F7bD1%2Bo8NNQjDxximv4A%3D&
>>> reser
>>>> 
>> ved=0><https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3
>>>> 
>>> A%2F%2Frange.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.
>>> com
>>>> 
>> %7Cc4a8f5a166ae49a2ab4f08dcfd9da752%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253
>>> b6
>>>> 
>>> f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638664100807277742%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
>>> eyJWIj
>>>> 
>> oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%
>>>> 
>>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=NOf%2FS%2BV%2BmVoo0kqY3sUbpt80WLS2itsKD1l4YGco
>>> t5A%
>>>> 3D&reserved=0>%7C360a053d61314c7851bc08dcec
>>>>> 6c99f5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc4
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 8b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638645198411584985%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>>>> bGZsb3d
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=r4xdN4asqklRHaI%2BIixWX29CCw7i1QBlmAHlNXr
>>>>> Kjng
>>>>>>>>>>>> %3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> _
>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent
>> contenir
>>>> des
>>>>>>>>>> informations
>>>>>>>>>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent
>>>> donc pas etre
>>>>>>>>>> diffuses,
>>>>>>>>>>> exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si
>> vous
>>>> avez recu ce
>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>> par erreur, veuillez le signaler a
>> l'expediteur
>>>> et le detruire
>>>>>>>>>> ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
>>>> electroniques etant
>>>>>>>>>> susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute
>>>> responsabilite si
>>>>>>>>>> ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie.
>>>> Merci.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This message and its attachments may contain
>>>> confidential or
>>>>>>>>>>> privileged information that may be protected
>> by
>>>> law; they should
>>>>>>>>>> not be distributed, used or copied without
>>>> authorisation.
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have received this email in error,
>> please
>>>> notify the
>>>>>>>>>> sender and delete this message and its
>> attachments.
>>>>>>>>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not
>> liable
>>>> for messages that
>>>>>>>>>> have been modified, changed or falsified.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent
>> contenir
>>>> des
>>>>>>>    informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne
>>>> doivent donc
>>>>>>>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans
>>>> autorisation. Si
>>>>>>>    vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le
>>>> signaler
>>>>>>>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les
>> pieces
>>>> jointes. Les
>>>>>>>    messages electroniques etant susceptibles
>> d'alteration,
>>>>>>>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce
>> message a
>>>> ete altere,
>>>>>>>    deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This message and its attachments may contain
>>>> confidential or
>>>>>>>    privileged information that may be protected by
>> law;
>>>>>>>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied
>>>> without
>>>>>>>    authorisation.
>>>>>>>>> If you have received this email in error, please
>>>> notify the
>>>>>>>    sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>>>>>>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable
>> for
>>>> messages
>>>>>>>    that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir
>> des
>>>>>>>    informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne
>>>> doivent donc
>>>>>>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans
>>>> autorisation. Si
>>>>>>>    vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le
>>>> signaler
>>>>>>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les
>> pieces
>>>> jointes. Les
>>>>>>>    messages electroniques etant susceptibles
>> d'alteration,
>>>>>>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message
>> a
>>>> ete altere,
>>>>>>>    deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This message and its attachments may contain
>>>> confidential or
>>>>>>>    privileged information that may be protected by
>> law;
>>>>>>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied
>>>> without
>>>>>>>    authorisation.
>>>>>>>> If you have received this email in error, please
>>>> notify the
>>>>>>>    sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>>>>>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable
>> for
>>>> messages that
>>>>>>>    have been modified, changed or falsified.
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir
>> des
>>>> informations
>>>>>>>    confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans
>>>> autorisation. Si vous
>>>>>>>    avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le
>> signaler
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces
>>>> jointes. Les
>>>>>>>    messages electroniques etant susceptibles
>> d'alteration,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a
>> ete
>>>> altere,
>>>>>>>    deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    This message and its attachments may contain
>>>> confidential or
>>>>>>>    privileged information that may be protected by
>> law;
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    they should not be distributed, used or copied
>> without
>>>> authorisation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    If you have received this email in error, please
>> notify
>>>> the sender
>>>>>>>    and delete this message and its attachments.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for
>>>> messages that
>>>>>>>    have been modified, changed or falsified.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Thank you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des
>>>> informations
>>>>>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas
>> etre
>>>>>>> diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si
>> vous
>>>> avez recu
>>>>>>> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a
>> l'expediteur
>>>> et le detruire ainsi
>>>>> que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant
>>>> susceptibles
>>>>> d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce
>> message
>>>> a ete altere,
>>>>> deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This message and its attachments may contain
>> confidential
>>>> or
>>>>>>> privileged information that may be protected by law;
>> they
>>>> should not be
>>>>> distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>>>>>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify
>> the
>>>> sender and delete
>>>>> this message and its attachments.
>>>>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for
>> messages
>>>> that have been
>>>>> modified, changed or falsified.
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> netmod mailing list -- [e-mail] To unsubscribe
>> send an
>>>> email to
>>>>>> [e-mail]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jürgen Schönwälder              Constructor University
>> Bremen
>>>> gGmbH
>>>>> Phone: [phone]         Campus Ring 1 | 28759
>> Bremen |
>>>> Germany
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> netmod mailing list -- [e-mail]
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
>>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> ___________________________________________
>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des
>> informations
>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si
>> vous avez recu ce
>>> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
>> messages
>>> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere,
>> deforme ou
>>> falsifie. Merci.
>>> 
>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
>> privileged
>>> information that may be protected by law;
>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without
>> authorisation.
>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the
>> sender and delete this
>>> message and its attachments.
>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages
>> that have been
>>> modified, changed or falsified.
>>> Thank you.
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
> 
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]