Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-06
Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> Wed, 11 March 2020 17:59 UTC
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To: Balázs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, NETMOD Working Group <netmod@ietf.org>
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From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:58:53 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-06
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Juergen, On on side, Balazs mentions: 4+ people asked me explicitly to state this similarity during the development of the draft. The current text is: P2 Instance data shall reuse existing encoding rules for YANG defined data. Its format will be similar to the response of a NETCONF <get> operation or the RESTCONF response to a GET method invocation on the (unified) datastore resource. This modification is based on your feedback: Well, then the correct wording would be "similar to the response of a NETCONF <get> operation or the RESTCONF response to a GET method invocation on the (unified) datastore resource". Sounds complex and I still prefer the text to be agnostic to specific operations On the other side, you insist now on removing the latter sentence. Could you propose a similar sentence that would satisfy your concern? Regards, Benoit > On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 04:17:40PM +0000, Balázs Lengyel wrote: >> See BALAZS4 below >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> >> Sent: 2020. március 9., hétfő 10:44 >> To: Balázs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> >> Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: >> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-06 >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Schönwälder, Jürgen <J.Schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> >>>> Sent: 2020. február 12., szerda 10:07 >>>> Subject: [Not Scanned] - Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-06 >>>> >>>>> - Is it necessary to describe P2 in terms of (presumably) NETCONF >>>>> operations? I would prefer to have the document written in a >>>>> protocol agnostic style. Perhaps simply drop "similar to the >>>>> response of a <get> operation/request". >>>>> BALAZS: This is a reference both to NETCONF and RESTCONF. It was >>>>> explicitly asked for by other reviewers. >>>> Well, then the correct wording would be "similar to the response of >>>> a NETCONF <get> operation or the RESTCONF response to a GET method >>>> invocation on the (unified) datastore resource". Sounds complex and >>>> I still prefer the text to be agnostic to specific operations - in >>>> particular since <get> and the unified datastore have their >>>> limitations. The format is simply reusing the already defined data >>>> model encoding formats, i.e., the format has nothing to do with the >>> operations used to retrieve the data. So I suggest: >>>> P2 Instance data shall reuse existing encoding rules for >>>> YANG defined data. >>>> >>>> There is no need to refer to specific protocol operations. >>>> BALAZS: I will use both of your texts. That is the most common >>>> question I >>>> get: Will this use the same format as a get-reply? People like to >>>> think in terms of a specific easy-to-grasp function instead of a >>>> non-descript set of "existing" rules. Existing means you need to >>>> understand X number of RFCs, while just looking up a get-reply is >>>> easy. It is not precise, but IMHO that's how people think. >>> If you write "reuse existing encoding rules", then actually fewer >>> documents need to be understood. And operations have additional issues >>> in how they interact with 'datastores', so they may even be misleading >>> and I rather have the standards precise (and minimal normative >> dependencies). >>> BALAZS3: Sorry, I don't fully understand your point. What would you >>> like in P2? >>> The text now is: >>> P2 Instance data shall reuse existing encoding rules for YANG >>> defined data. Its format will be similar to the response of a >>> NETCONF <get> operation or the RESTCONF response to a GET method >>> invocation on the (unified) datastore resource. >>> It refers to existing rules as you asked for and also says" similar" >>> to a get response, using phrasing from your email on 2020-02-12. >>> Are you OK with this? Or how would you like to change it? >> What I proposed above: >> >> P2 Instance data shall reuse existing encoding rules for >> YANG defined data. >> >> Your additional sentence is simply wrong. Instance data from lets say >> <operational> with _not_ be 'similar' to the response of a NETCONF <get> >> operation or the RESTCONF response to a GET method invocation on the >> (unified) datastore resource. The same holds true for instance data from >> <running>. >> BALAZS4: I would like to keep the second part of the sentence. >> 4+ people asked me explicitly to state this similarity during the >> development of the draft. While your methodical and somewhat abstract way of >> thinking has greatly helped me/us in many cases, IMHO other people often >> think in the terms of examples and in recognizing known similar >> methodology. As the we use the same encoding rules for get replies and for >> instance data, IMHO they are similar even if instance data allows some >> additions/omissions. (People liked/requested this statement, even though >> "similar" is a rather subjective term.) >> Anyway it is only included in the introduction part, so while it helps some >> people, it should not cause problems with the precise definition of the >> format. On your request I already removed a similar statement from the >> normative parts. > What the sentence says is unclear or plain wrong in a number of valid > use cases (depends on how one understands the word "similar") and thus > this sentence is misleading and asking for trouble down the road. I > fully understand the value of examples but here we define what is > called a 'basic principle' - and a basic principle that is not quite > correct for all use cases sounds like a bad idea to me. > > If you want to write an example after the principles that is > identifiable as an example, I am fine with that. As the sentence is > worded right now as part of a 'basic principle', I am having an issue > with the it. > > /js >
- [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-ins… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Schönwälder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Benoit Claise
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-yang… Martin Björklund