Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00

Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com> Mon, 08 October 2018 21:05 UTC

Return-Path: <alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351CE130E96 for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7dIllUibCUgD for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 730D4130F49 for <netmod@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6C18C11C108D; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 22:05:15 +0100 (IST)
Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 22:05:16 +0100
Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.47]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.60]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 14:05:10 -0700
From: Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
To: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00
Thread-Index: AQHUWyQUI2nNckn+1ky1f4oa9l5TQKUPVRSAgAAnqICAAARaAIAABz8AgABBFoCAAAiTAIAAGC0AgAAFdICAAAvggIAAw7yAgAUeeMA=
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 21:05:09 +0000
Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB6D575@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com>
References: <201810031419.w93EJNpn040188@idle.juniper.net> <20181004.121417.2190375850946168105.mbj@tail-f.com> <69afa537-9a5f-6fb6-de21-2add0ffec4b2@cisco.com> <0aa239221e80e812f920db6ae023eabc6b3ef5ed.camel@nic.cz> <ccc83277-cfa7-f363-1beb-78e801f8b675@cisco.com> <27c125fa83754c5f6723e04243f1efdaf4be8e82.camel@nic.cz> <7E46B2E3-3F12-4E08-8172-823E73E25D50@juniper.net> <20181004190754.fsu5ck5jblw5uuah@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <CABCOCHTu5ju8Qv548g+mDNioBAAuxRywZknoNO9mbUOY3MaoGw@mail.gmail.com> <8704A29D-EBAB-4AA0-B5A3-3CAC74403360@juniper.net> <87sh1kde7u.fsf@nic.cz>
In-Reply-To: <87sh1kde7u.fsf@nic.cz>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.193.35.91]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/pWKv7xnH6WMff9_0bJcIuLklUDI>
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 21:05:24 -0000

I would second the request for one format (which is mandatory to support), which must be specified.  YANG-Patch is the logical candidate IMHO.  

To allow selection of other formats using an input parameter makes sense, but adds some complexity from there:  How to know which formats are supported?  (Add a list of supported formats somewhere?)   Or simply rely on augmentation for those implementations that want it?  

--- Alex

> -----Original Message-----
> From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 12:50 AM
> To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>; Andy Bierman
> <andy@yumaworks.com>; Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-
> university.de>; netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00
> 
> Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> writes:
> 
> > Sure, one mandatory to implement format, others nice to have.
> > Interoperability good.  Agreed.
> >
> > But why YANG-patch and not something built for the purpose (e.g.,
> > YANG-diff) that, in particular, provides an actual diff as opposed to
> > a data-tree operation that only shows one of the two values?
> 
> Such a format can be developed independently, I would support it.
> 
> Lada
> 
> >
> > Kent // contributor
> >
> >
> > On 10/4/18, 3:27 PM, "Andy Bierman"
> <andy@yumaworks.com<mailto:andy@yumaworks.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder
> <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de<mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-
> university.de>> wrote:
> > Folks, the more formats there are, the less interoperability we get.
> > If there are multiple formats, is there a mandatory to implement
> > format? Does the mandatory to implement format depend on the protocol
> > that is being used?
> >
> > I prefer one format or if necessary I am fine with one mandatory to
> > implement format. An open ended collection of implementation specific
> > formats is super flexible but defeats the purpose of a standard,
> > namely interoperability.
> >
> > I agree there needs to be 1 mandatory-to-implement format.
> >
> > IMO this needs to be YANG Patch because it is more precise then
> > constructing an XML tree with operation attributes in it (e.g., how
> > else do you represent a delete or a move?) Also, YANG Push is using
> > YANG Patch format and common code for push and diff would be possible.
> >
> > I think other formats should be allowed.
> > This is very tool-specific. I could see how somebody might want a
> > textual patch of the XML representation to produce the new XML
> representation.
> >
> >
> > /js
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:41:22PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> >> We agree that the diff-format should be client-selectable, modulo what the
> server supports.  yang-patch and edit-config both are viable.  Should we
> document them both?
> >>
> >> That said, since neither edit-config nor yang-patch are diffing formats, so
> much as formats for converting one data tree to another, would it make sense
> to define an actual diffing format?  I would think that a diff would provide both
> values, not just a new value.
> >>
> >> Kent // contributor
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: netmod
> >> <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf
> >> of Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz<mailto:lhotka@nic.cz>>
> >> Organization: CZ.NIC
> >> Date: Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 1:11 PM
> >> To: Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com<mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>>,
> >> "netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>"
> >> <netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>>
> >> Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for
> >> draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00
> >>
> >> On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 14:17 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On 04/10/2018 13:51, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> >> > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 13:36 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> >> > > > On 04/10/2018 11:14, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> >> > > > > Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net<mailto:phil@juniper.net>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > Bal?zs Lengyel writes:
> >> > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tool
> >> > > > > > > s.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dclemm-2Dnetmod-2Dnmda-2Ddiff-2D00
> >> > > > > > > &d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r
> >> > > > > > >
> =9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9O
> >> > > > > > >
> l3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=gQWJtjc_2EF3QgRvABgZK
> >> > > > > > > sjqzuIw9yUq_xee6aFJOcw&e=
> >> > > > > > [I've moved to a "deep lurker" role here, but ...]
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Can we ensure this model contains a "format" leaf in the RPC's input
> >> > > > > > so that future (and proprietary) formats can be supported?   That
> >> > > > > > leaf can be an identityref that defaults to yang-patch.
> >> > > > > I think this is a good idea.  I would prefer the edit-config
> >> > > > > format over YANG patch for describing a diff.  The
> >> > > > > edit-config format is more suited for this purpose imo.
> >> > > > +1
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I would like something closer to edit-config to be available
> >> > > > via RESTCONF as well.
> >> > > YANG Patch is IMO better because it clearly separates the target
> >> > > for the edits from the new content.
> >> > > In edit-config these two are mixed together.
> >> > Yes, that is primarily why I prefer the edit-config.  I perceive
> >> > that it is a denser and more efficient format.  I think that it is
> >> > both easier to construct (when diffing two trees) and also more
> >> > efficient to apply when generating an updated tree.
> >>
> >> Except for certain corner cases, for example if two trees differ only
> >> in the value of a single leaf but this leaf happens to be a list key.
> >>
> >> Lada
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Rob
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > That being said, I support specifying format/media-type and
> >> > > having potentially multiple options.
> >> > >
> >> > > Lada
> >> > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > Rob
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > /martin
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > netmod mailing list
> >> > > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> >> > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf
> >> > > > >
> .org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0U
> >> > > > > jBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjIS
> >> > > > >
> laJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg
> >> > > > > 5pzHW-zi1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor9n_APQ&e=
> >> > > > > .
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > netmod mailing list
> >> > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> >> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.o
> >> > > >
> rg_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXe
> >> > > > MK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZ
> >> > > >
> o&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg5pzHW-zi
> >> > > > 1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor9n_APQ&e=
> >> --
> >> Ladislav Lhotka
> >> Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> >> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> netmod mailing list
> >> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mai
> >> lman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTX
> >>
> cWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3
> BO
> >> CbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg5pzHW-
> zi1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor
> >> 9n_APQ&e=
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> netmod mailing list
> >> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod<https://urldefense.proof
> >> point.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=D
> >> wMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9E
> >> PoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O7d-
> b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6
> >> W3qt4&s=5LHhbfQZeoqYlC40T3mm-AEz4rSsyRWYjqTK7LuWTPw&e=>
> >
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-
> university.de/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.jacobs-
> 2Duniversity.de_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O
> 7d-
> b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6W3qt4&s=zh7qEPSmwviaSqZBqG1Gc
> qItXwI9pwyqIFVW6xC8rK8&e=>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod<https://urldefense.proofp
> > oint.com/v2/url?u=https-
> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwM
> > FaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-
> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoO
> > H7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O7d-
> b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6W3qt
> > 4&s=5LHhbfQZeoqYlC40T3mm-AEz4rSsyRWYjqTK7LuWTPw&e=>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka
> Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod