Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36FD130E8C for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 01:40:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4zsTrPst_Jax for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 01:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48A8E130E6E for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 01:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1R9eXcH014823; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:33 GMT Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id A437722032; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 988942203D; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([87.112.237.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x1R9eW6J023121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:33 GMT Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Joel Jaeggli'" Cc: "'Kent Watsen'" , References: <0100016926bfd7ac-333fc4ef-98a8-4dc4-98a2-1b3414b35e24-000000@email.amazonses.com> <04b001d4ce22$5bd78d50$1386a7f0$@olddog.co.uk> <6E24D34F-9943-4A71-9F28-4E4548FF30B0@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <6E24D34F-9943-4A71-9F28-4E4548FF30B0@bogus.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:31 -0000 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <057f01d4ce80$7bc4fc70$734ef550$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0580_01D4CE80.7BC4FC70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIdXCwF6+3Dw/Axku1x55iGoJDnFwKu0UlwAk3IamilOl96UA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 87.112.237.8 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24458.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--28.646-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--28.646-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24458.005 X-TMASE-Result: 10--28.645500-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: Ync95tbzDRnxIbpQ8BhdbH4f9De+CyQCU1huRZDI++o4kO+ca7VnMUrt uXn9VDPoCEcZs/o/9lGXM+Lzmod/9gDNPxu11HXjbMGKOuLn5FVK0YCCYqpa5W3D6f6IpbLIS8I aTgdsIrCxHaMfifv71pcyt5zIhxG/o28kkGKrXVrpnOP6QxEGtuzysj4CurnhJLfQYoCQHFZaKh u8tq9RYrdPrkFMalw+VOEyvhz4+EKA4OBLF/NjnFPjo7D4SFg4H181YDtIVarE3grQNcpLWBYR8 SHMAtRe+jMk79vvL8wOwWXaw100i+L5N47U/H9LQpxiLlDD9FXTDXgcUlCNozIZlC8UfsZzqwwJ P5IbqG3rYUe7ynoRVKPCbIW4ooFkDtZgR42ZNmcAKzYLecaUGKGL0wLo4E7C4PMwkTni6j6VIEi 8fvjB8owNKcscIQ/gliXG6TWiBADDTqNelQn9chzwnpmtY/+r31asM/gsp2mpVUR0SvYtSsbK+p u0ZYwRBHVm0xh58VY8LuP+bOkMWt3jF2fVcPdzDB+ErBr0bANar2Wff4KSIaUXswX/xrISOe5BY zkyOSWATHNX4n1dGM63SXqIZW9ISLYOuP0pddff8GJjBXCUiCDmNS0pUbQ0Fz6fOzzqvcbE3G8+ Yjo3Xnb4Bm7FqQnLLXB+vheGgKnA+jwY/tNg22/+RwWenb0YwSJcbRHuoMfDv5dDcuT2eXtKAeF xTY2CKv3xLZTh+FBAnsaTSHT+C7NUVnqixiMODrDTQZ5YEVp9LQinZ4QefK9dKZJ2Vxiasuf7RW bvUtzPvfjkPVP+X9934/rDAK3zhG2qikEpQGX4YSCWMIUFUfNiS+WaRKxgQRYoZxG0FELOIBsEE M8xUdYxFAbKgQ7V X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:40:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0580_01D4CE80.7BC4FC70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Complete agreement, Joel. =20 What follows may look better in proportional fonts. =20 With a single slash we can wrap as follows =20 1234567 9012345 =20 Goes to=E2=80=A6 =20 1234567 \ 9012345 =20 =E2=80=A6and unwrapping is easy. =20 However, if I want to manually wrap the line with indentation =20 The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog =20 ..going to=E2=80=A6 =20 The quick brown fox\ jumps over the lazy dog =20 =E2=80=A6I am going to unfold as=E2=80=A6 =20 The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog =20 =20 Conversely, if I resolve this second case by stripping leading spaces I = get=E2=80=A6 =20 The quick brown foxjumps over the lazy dog =20 So I have to fold as=E2=80=A6 =20 The quick brown fox \ jumps over the lazy dog =20 But this causes the first case to unfold as =20 1234567 9012345 =20 =E2=80=A6i.e., with missing spaces. =20 This is what caused the use of the second slash so=E2=80=A6 =20 1234567 \ \ 9012345 =20 =E2=80=A6and=E2=80=A6 =20 The quick brown fox\ \ jumps over the lazy dog =20 =20 So, my point is, if and only if we do not care about these = =E2=80=9Cspaces on the fold=E2=80=9D cases, we can operate with a single = slash. =20 Cheers, Adrian =20 From: Joel Jaeggli =20 Sent: 27 February 2019 06:31 To: Adrian Farrel Cc: Kent Watsen ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? =20 =20 On Feb 26, 2019, at 14:26, Adrian Farrel > wrote: =20 Hey. =20 I=E2=80=99ve been having this discussion with Kent off-line, but thought = it should come to the list. =20 I don=E2=80=99t think it is a good idea to have two approaches. While it = would be relatively easy to code for both approaches, it seems to add a = degree of confusion if both have to be handled by the same code = (consider deciding whether leading space characters are to be retained = or not, something that can only be decided when the first non-space = character is found), or by having different code for the two different = cases. =20 It doesn=E2=80=99t seem to me that both cases are needed. We can pick = one or the other. =20 A single slash has been used to wrap long lines in editors and shells = for decades at this point. =20 and yeah whatever it is one method seems better than two. =20 And *if* we want to allow manual folding so that indents can be made to = make the document more human-readable then we have to use a leading = =E2=80=98\=E2=80=99 on continuation lines to show which spaces should be = stripped and which retained. =20 Cheers, Adrian =20 From: netmod > = On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 25 February 2019 22:22 To: netmod@ietf.org =20 Subject: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? =20 =20 I had a chat with the tools team recently and, in the course of things, = it was implied that the double backslash approach we have now was both surprising and = non-intuitive.=20 =20 This got me thinking that we may have thrown the proverbial baby out = with the bathwater. That is, currently we have a header that reads: =20 NOTE: '\\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =20 So why not *also* support a header that reads (note the singe slash): =20 NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =20 Whereby this second form only supports the folded line continuing on = column 1 (no indents). =20 Thoughts? =20 Kent // contributor =20 =20 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0580_01D4CE80.7BC4FC70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Complete = agreement, Joel.

 

What = follows may look better in proportional fonts.

 

With a = single slash we can wrap as follows

 

1234567=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 9012345

 

Goes = to=E2=80=A6

 

1234567=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = \

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = 9012345

 

=E2=80=A6and unwrapping is = easy.

 

However, if = I want to manually wrap the line with = indentation

 

The quick = brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

 

..going = to=E2=80=A6

 

The quick = brown fox\

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = jumps over the lazy dog

 

=E2=80=A6I = am going to unfold as=E2=80=A6

 

The quick = brown fox=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 jumps over the lazy = dog

 

 

Conversely, = if I resolve this second case by stripping leading spaces I = get=E2=80=A6

 

The quick = brown foxjumps over the lazy dog

 

So I have = to fold as=E2=80=A6

 

The quick = brown fox \

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = jumps over the lazy dog

 

But this = causes the first case to unfold as

 

1234567=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = 9012345

 

=E2=80=A6i.e., with missing = spaces.

 

This is = what caused the use of the second slash = so=E2=80=A6

 

1234567=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = \

\=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = 9012345

 

=E2=80=A6and=E2=80=A6

 

The quick = brown fox\

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \ jumps = over the lazy dog

 

 

So, my = point is, if and only if we do not care about these =E2=80=9Cspaces on = the fold=E2=80=9D cases, we can operate with a single = slash.

 

Cheers,

Adrian

 

From: Joel Jaeggli = <joelja@bogus.com>
Sent: 27 February 2019 = 06:31
To: Adrian Farrel = <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: Kent Watsen = <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [netmod] artwork folding: dual support = modes?

 

 



On Feb 26, 2019, at 14:26, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> = wrote:

 

Hey.

 

I=E2=80=99ve been having this discussion with Kent = off-line, but thought it should come to the = list.

 

I = don=E2=80=99t think it is a good idea to have two approaches. While it = would be relatively easy to code for both approaches, it seems to add a = degree of confusion if both have to be handled by the same code = (consider deciding whether leading space characters are to be retained = or not, something that can only be decided when the first non-space = character is found), or by having different code for the two different = cases.

 

It doesn=E2=80=99t seem to me that both cases are = needed. We can pick one or the = other.

 

A = single slash has been used to wrap long lines in editors and shells for = decades at this point.

 

and yeah whatever it is one method seems better than = two.



 

And *if* we want to allow manual folding so = that indents can be made to make the document more human-readable then = we have to use a leading =E2=80=98\=E2=80=99 on continuation lines to = show which spaces should be stripped and which = retained.

 

Cheers,

Adrian

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent = Watsen
Sent: 25 February 2019 = 22:22
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] artwork folding: = dual support modes?

 

 

I had a chat with the tools team recently and, in the = course of things, it was implied

that the double backslash approach we have now was = both surprising and = non-intuitive. 

 

This got me thinking that we may have thrown the = proverbial baby out with the = bathwater.

That = is, currently we have a header that = reads:

 

  NOTE: '\\' line wrapping per BCP XX =
(RFC XXXX)

 

So why not *also* support a header that reads (note = the singe slash):

 

  NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX =
(RFC XXXX)

 

Whereby this second form only supports the folded line = continuing on column 1 (no = indents).

 

Thoughts?

 

Kent // = contributor

 

 

____________= ___________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

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