Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Thu, 04 October 2018 21:05 UTC

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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:04:56 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00
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On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 1:09 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

> Sure, one mandatory to implement format, others nice to have.
>
> Interoperability good.  Agreed.
>
>
>
> But why YANG-patch and not something built for the purpose
>
> (e.g., YANG-diff) that, in particular, provides an actual diff as
>
> opposed to a data-tree operation that only shows one of the
>
> two values?
>
>
>

The yang-patch edit list could be augmented with an 'old-value' node.
This seems reasonable to provide for leafs.



> Kent // contributor
>
>
>


Andy


>
>
> On 10/4/18, 3:27 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <
> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
>
> Folks, the more formats there are, the less interoperability we
> get. If there are multiple formats, is there a mandatory to implement
> format? Does the mandatory to implement format depend on the protocol
> that is being used?
>
> I prefer one format or if necessary I am fine with one mandatory to
> implement format. An open ended collection of implementation specific
> formats is super flexible but defeats the purpose of a standard,
> namely interoperability.
>
>
>
> I agree there needs to be 1 mandatory-to-implement format.
>
>
>
> IMO this needs to be YANG Patch because it is more precise then
> constructing an XML tree with
>
> operation attributes in it (e.g., how else do you represent a delete or a
> move?)
>
> Also, YANG Push is using YANG Patch format and common code for push and
> diff would be
>
> possible.
>
>
>
> I think other formats should be allowed.
>
> This is very tool-specific. I could see how somebody might want
>
> a textual patch of the XML representation to produce the new XML
> representation.
>
>
>
>
>
> /js
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:41:22PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> > We agree that the diff-format should be client-selectable, modulo what
> the server supports.  yang-patch and edit-config both are viable.  Should
> we document them both?
> >
> > That said, since neither edit-config nor yang-patch are diffing formats,
> so much as formats for converting one data tree to another, would it make
> sense to define an actual diffing format?  I would think that a diff would
> provide both values, not just a new value.
> >
> > Kent // contributor
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka <
> lhotka@nic.cz>
> > Organization: CZ.NIC
> > Date: Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 1:11 PM
> > To: Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <
> netmod@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-
> 00
> >
> > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 14:17 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> > >
> > > On 04/10/2018 13:51, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 13:36 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> > > > > On 04/10/2018 11:14, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > > > > > Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > Bal?zs Lengyel writes:
> > > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.
> ietf.org_html_draft-2Dclemm-2Dnetmod-2Dnmda-2Ddiff-2D00&d=DwICAg&c=
> HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=
> 9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=
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> > > > > > > [I've moved to a "deep lurker" role here, but ...]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can we ensure this model contains a "format" leaf in the RPC's
> input
> > > > > > > so that future (and proprietary) formats can be supported?
>  That
> > > > > > > leaf can be an identityref that defaults to yang-patch.
> > > > > > I think this is a good idea.  I would prefer the edit-config
> format
> > > > > > over YANG patch for describing a diff.  The edit-config format
> is more
> > > > > > suited for this purpose imo.
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like something closer to edit-config to be available via
> > > > > RESTCONF as well.
> > > > YANG Patch is IMO better because it clearly separates the target for
> the
> > > > edits
> > > > from the new content.
> > > > In edit-config these two are mixed together.
> > > Yes, that is primarily why I prefer the edit-config.  I perceive that
> it
> > > is a denser and more efficient format.  I think that it is both easier
> > > to construct (when diffing two trees) and also more efficient to apply
> > > when generating an updated tree.
> >
> > Except for certain corner cases, for example if two trees differ only in
> the
> > value of a single leaf but this leaf happens to be a list key.
> >
> > Lada
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > > That being said, I support specifying format/media-type and having
> > > > potentially
> > > > multiple options.
> > > >
> > > > Lada
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > /martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > .
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka
> > Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
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