Re: [nfsv4] Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-nfsv4-rpc-tls-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> Wed, 08 July 2020 13:50 UTC

Return-Path: <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9033A0BE9; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDWzl1SH-UhR; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 652923A0BE6; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id x9so39145684ila.3; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 06:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UUJ0IxoTvIWtZpijLRcW1hObkzBVxJ1r5zXUcmCrM1E=; b=vhsINXnXsVtnF6aPv3AYWWNAxj0u0awZHdNVQaRkL4ouo84J8JETUyybCrrMvi1Oeo LVnW+lELMt3d42PwPXWCvrYyhlN0Q63TKlYQ7dCWwXZBEALuIK0Z6Gw8IHzX9j5FYdNu 2y6eddmxTDy6ueo1OKkKRABa3wSZ2fy8PimWV14D6kV6YtmlKH8UuNfS/EqFSd7fOFFn SZByShMC1YWa1w3JavI9t06/Hs8zCq9uCHA+FrfwaryxqTsRc18eebQSclHg9MudwYCS yfyrD//zNYk128X9PMJynO9wIPqS20Je+0iWCB/3Es8RRUiYLfq1gMCinvbrOz0nK9fR JHKQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UUJ0IxoTvIWtZpijLRcW1hObkzBVxJ1r5zXUcmCrM1E=; b=U04uE0e7du8ytzgLNjFkIwfDGUD+WylpSltapfyigFPtobgcV3t3zfkm3C0zm2uoYW Yx4vlFeWigWMHHfycK3Nyaok+avga4sKlX+UCS4SYy23X2sy4CgGkJgumt1mi0xjTvu8 FIJWhE1nvp1FzPP55dubDx0C6w/d0b0qzTx2TtPc8yyucOQwUGnEhBtux1+S/6uAiAdP G/z5iR/GdAjOEf5iMFdWZzjXGSHz0lyD2zWaWzQZsW/9MvrDQOdER98OwKCHBOpWQH4m MPKthx/nCQBEAZkhL3CneP70yn3dEJfjZIM1jISZILBfgwKg143Nm40IqaDzkN/tuWUc wXKQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KKf/HOoMdDiZFY6GQRLbbBBu66H2DYrdIh4MEIWGesfL/sO2C dqD+eA+Qq31o/h6pdOYxx1v0NA8jEotbe9SBJac=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5NsuggDoNrLIraKZC8EeNMJRhGePX8D2UshTqXmPlYI0yBRDRaUDeiGfvhicKuhiliHCXnlufAXddAP53t+0=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:db01:: with SMTP id b1mr40556944iln.249.1594216257692; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 06:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <159311856977.23665.6882641799899154823@ietfa.amsl.com> <20200708052747.GE16335@kduck.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20200708052747.GE16335@kduck.mit.edu>
From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:50:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CAM4esxTz0uzVQmGFLtzoXtyiU=aZCZRKeoyh18THCjJWSU7hNg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com>, draft-ietf-nfsv4-rpc-tls@ietf.org, nfsv4-chairs@ietf.org, nfsv4@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bc285705a9ee65a3"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nfsv4/1Lc-5WnPw0amCYc1gBX16flz4nw>
Subject: Re: [nfsv4] Martin Duke's Discuss on draft-ietf-nfsv4-rpc-tls-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: nfsv4@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NFSv4 Working Group <nfsv4.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nfsv4>, <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nfsv4/>
List-Post: <mailto:nfsv4@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nfsv4>, <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:51:00 -0000

Thank you for that reference.

I agree that simply saying that Early Data MUST NOT be used is sufficient.
I am skeptical that implementers of this draft will read E.5 of RFC 8446.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:27 PM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 01:56:10PM -0700, Martin Duke via Datatracker
> wrote:
> > Martin Duke has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-nfsv4-rpc-tls-08: Discuss
> >
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> >
> >
> > Please refer to
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> >
> >
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nfsv4-rpc-tls/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > This presumably a trivial fix but I think it's important enough to be a
> DISCUSS:
> >
> > I think the document needs some discussion of the security properties of
> TLS1.3
> > early data over TCP, if only to refer to Section 8 of RFC 8446 (replay)
> and
> > mention that it is not forward-secure, unlike the rest of the payload.
>
> I actually think that the situation is well-defined without such additional
> text -- Appendix E.5 notes that:
>
>    Application protocols MUST NOT use 0-RTT data without a profile that
>    defines its use.  That profile needs to identify which messages or
>    interactions are safe to use with 0-RTT and how to handle the
>    situation when the server rejects 0-RTT and falls back to 1-RTT.
>
> Since this document does not provide such a profile, early data MUST NOT be
> used, and there's no need to say more.
>
> -Ben
>