Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things
Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com> Thu, 11 September 2014 03:08 UTC
Return-Path: <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: nsaas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nsaas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5860C1A03C5 for <nsaas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G9T6oOKseKWP for <nsaas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pd0-x22d.google.com (mail-pd0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 414EA1A0314 for <nsaas@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pd0-f173.google.com with SMTP id ft15so10416624pdb.32 for <nsaas@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=o/hXHprDmz7RU+jNtDlkXs8Tf6yrnLj7I/9h9e67COo=; b=HLnZbPhzaYPKdEob62jQjJOpPYIj49xU/PsLZQlTpytz+Rol1S2BPiTjHiQZ9rPjZB LzZKjGOZqrt5O+Ha5c5UlX1pmZWsGOLAMWTb8zC6VNSf2/eIiKy3Rbqy2YML67d1QDGF Drlzedn6eWG78tjWZVGee6sf1yZ4XLjcElSTbna/gCXZgjTXB4TCNO/dVMDCjxauJQED G4crEWqr5YIWwm1J11kY/1fnuzh5GSwGdhv1iHedZTS2yC0LO79cvKZiFmea/SoT8cev k5JsWBGIYwC4We6KnArxrcqhAPsqkp0S8pSaF5/xWlGkk85GJsZAyyetUZRx1zbJO8Es HXYg==
X-Received: by 10.66.100.170 with SMTP id ez10mr69725666pab.12.1410404925921; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from spandex.local (69-161-3-58-rb2.sol.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [69.161.3.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hz1sm15731222pbb.75.2014.09.10.20.08.44 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Sep 2014 20:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5411123B.2020104@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:08:43 -0800
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
References: <53E97DB5.3040106@gmail.com> <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779661978DE@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53E98377.1030902@gmail.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645DB236D@dfweml701-chm.china.huawei.com> <53EA3EBE.50200@gmail.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645DB2420@dfweml701-chm.china.huawei.com> <53EA4704.2090401@gmail.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645DB2460@dfweml701-chm.china.huawei.com> <53EA4D5E.70303@gmail.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645DB24CD@dfweml701-chm.china.huawei.com> <F786A82C-976A-44F5-8832-ACA12CD2477B@telefonica.com> <540CB51B.7010204@gmail.com> <C331C853-500F-46C7-BF73-8D07B9B1ADB8@telefonica.com>
In-Reply-To: <C331C853-500F-46C7-BF73-8D07B9B1ADB8@telefonica.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nsaas/Gj5fXfkyGlYSwacsxjP6WaiLbhU
Cc: "nsaas@ietf.org" <nsaas@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things
X-BeenThere: nsaas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "*NSaaS: Network Security as a Service mailing list*" <nsaas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nsaas>, <mailto:nsaas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nsaas/>
List-Post: <mailto:nsaas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nsaas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsaas>, <mailto:nsaas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 03:08:48 -0000
On 9/10/14 12:13 PM, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote: > I fully agree with your statement of trying to narrow the scope and > identify the piece(s) of technical work to be solved. With that in > mind I suggested the three aspects to be considered, intended as a > first step to concrete the goals for a future group. For sure we need > to refine them but I can tell you that we are seriously considering > the provision of this kind of security services to our customers. So > I guess we can consider the request to bring our "product managers" > to the process fulfilled from our side... Well, yes and no. To back up a little bit, the IETF has not historically hewn to the problem statement->framework->whatever process. Work used to be brought in more fully considered, and I think it does not represent progress that we're now seeing a lot of problem statements. To me, it suggests that the work that's being proposed isn't really work per se - someone's got some ideas about an interesting problem but hasn't really worked out the details, whether the problem can (or should) be solved in the IETF at all, and so on. It seems to me that from an organizational perspective, the problem statements have turned into an unproductive time sink. Work really needs to be more mature before a BOF is approved. On the other hand, people who are writing drafts and advocating for particular pieces of work should not be in a particular hurry to have a BOF. It is not in the interest of people advocating a piece of work to have an unsuccessful BOF. It hurts your case. Second, it's also important to keep in mind that the work of the IETF is done primarily on mailing lists and through the document process, not at meetings. It's possible (and has been done a number of times) to form a working group without ever having held a BOF. This is not ETSI and it's not the ITU-T. The best way to move work along is to have a technically credible proposal that's reasonably mature, and to have some people who want to build it and some other people who want to deploy it. Support from other people who write standards is shallow if there's no institutional commitment to the technology on the parts of their employers. I don't know where this cloud security stuff is going to go. It looks like there are a few specific technical problems that need to be solved. I think the best way forward it to tease out some specific problems, and try to develop technical proposals around those problems. Don't rush towards a BOF but rather have some solid, credible technical work done first. Demonstrate that it's a problem that needs to be solved, that the participants are capable of solving it, that somebody's going to actually build it, and someone else is going to actually deploy it, and your chances of the work going forward in the IETF have just skyrocketed. Melinda
- [Nsaas] Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Zongning
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] 答复: Existing work, other things Linda Dunbar
- [Nsaas] Comparing NSIS and the work to be done by… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] Comparing NSIS and the work to be don… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] Comparing NSIS and the work to be don… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] Comparing NSIS and the work to be don… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- [Nsaas] Comparing the IETF existing SACM work wit… Linda Dunbar
- [Nsaas] Is I2NSF (Open Interface for Network Secu… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things Melinda Shore
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things Wangyuchen
- Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA