Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things

DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <> Sun, 28 September 2014 12:33 UTC

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To: Melinda Shore <>
Thread-Topic: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things
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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:32:59 +0000
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Cc: "" <>, "" <>, Linda Dunbar <>
Subject: Re: [Nsaas] Existing work, other things
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This may come a little bit late for the nsaas list, so I am using the new i2nsf as well...
On 11 Sep 2014, at 05:08 , Melinda Shore <> wrote:

> On 9/10/14 12:13 PM, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>> I fully agree with your statement of trying to narrow the scope and
>> identify the piece(s) of technical work to be solved. With that in
>> mind I suggested the three aspects to be considered, intended as a
>> first step to concrete the goals for a future group. For sure we need
>> to refine them but I can tell you that we are seriously considering
>> the provision of this kind of security services to our customers. So
>> I guess we can consider the request to bring our "product managers"
>> to the process fulfilled from our side...
> Well, yes and no.
> To back up a little bit, the IETF has not historically hewn to the
> problem statement->framework->whatever process.  Work used to be
> brought in more fully considered, and I think it does not represent
> progress that we're now seeing a lot of problem statements.  To me,
> it suggests that the work that's being proposed isn't really work
> per se - someone's got some ideas about an interesting problem but
> hasn't really worked out the details, whether the problem can (or
> should) be solved in the IETF at all, and so on.  It seems to me that
> from an organizational perspective, the problem statements have
> turned into an unproductive time sink.  Work really needs to be
> more mature before a BOF is approved.

I fully agree with you. As I said, we are engaged in a project that is already producing results in the direction of NSaaS/I2NSF (whatever we call it at the end) and I saw this proposal as an interesting opportunity to standardize some of them. The problem statement->framework->whatever process may have not been the IETF style to proceed (and I praise that!) but I am afraid that this is becoming commonplace, hence my statement above...

> On the other hand, people who are writing drafts and advocating
> for particular pieces of work should not be in a particular hurry
> to have a BOF.  It is not in the interest of people advocating a
> piece of work to have an unsuccessful BOF.  It hurts your case.
> Second, it's also important to keep in mind that the work of the
> IETF is done primarily on mailing lists and through the document
> process, not at meetings.  It's possible (and has been done a
> number of times) to form a working group without ever having held
> a BOF.

Agreed as well. In fact, I am under the impression that a group-forming BoF at IETF91 would be premature.

> This is not ETSI and it's not the ITU-T.  The best way to move
> work along is to have a technically credible proposal that's
> reasonably mature, and to have some people who want to build it
> and some other people who want to deploy it.  Support from other
> people who write standards is shallow if there's no institutional
> commitment to the technology on the parts of their employers.

Not sure about the ITU-T, but to be fair to ETSI I must say that their flexibility when it came to NFV was more than remarkable...

Be goode,

"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D

Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091


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