Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia University inthe City of New York's Statement about IPR relatedto draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
"Georgios Karagiannis" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl> Fri, 10 December 2010 12:16 UTC
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From: Georgios Karagiannis <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
To: 'Calvin Chu' <cc2962@columbia.edu>, 'Al Morton' <acmorton@att.com>, 'Jukka Manner' <jukka.manner@tkk.fi>
References: <FBC92463F12E5849A42E8995D9D79D5F76E4CE@CUIT-EXCHANGE2.ais.columbia.edu><AVJr2JlT.1291877732.6009140.karagian@ewi.utwente.nl> <FBC92463F12E5849A42E8995D9D79D5F76E76F@CUIT-EXCHANGE2.ais.columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:17:54 +0100
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Cc: nsis@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia University inthe City of New York's Statement about IPR relatedto draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13
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Hi Calvin Please see in line! > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Calvin Chu > Sent: vrijdag 10 december 2010 6:27 > To: Georgios Karagiannis; Al Morton; Jukka Manner > Cc: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia > University inthe City of New York's Statement about IPR relatedto > draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 > > All, > > Is the Cisco style IPR disclosure the preferred format? The patent > reciprocity isn't a good fit for us (as a non-profit) but this spells > out a possible royalty as an option. Georgios: Okay! > > Based on various comments, I'm going to guess that no one here is > objecting to free experimental use, and free open-source use. Georgios: Agree! > > So one point of contention is Columbia's failure to submit this on > time. > For this, I can offer my sincere apologies. I was notified of this > unfortunately late in the game and it's outside of my ability to fix > this point. > > The other point of contention is the FRAND terms in the situation it > becomes a protocol standard, and even then, only in the non-open > source case. Georgios: Yes, for the case that the IPR is used in the non-open source case, instead of asking a fee, you could try to accomplish a better conformance of disclosure such as use of the Cisco style IPR Disclosure. > > Is the issue: A) The fact that the fee is unknown B) The fact that > there is a fee at all or C) desire to see better conformance of > disclosure such as use of the Cisco style IPR disclosure Georgios: Please see above! Best regards, Georgios > > Regards, > > Calvin Chu > Senior Licensing Officer > Columbia Technology Ventures > http://techventures.columbia.edu > Tel: (212) 851-4140 > Twitter: cchu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Georgios Karagiannis [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl] > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:56 AM > To: Calvin Chu; Al Morton; Jukka Manner > Cc: nsis@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia > University in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to > draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 > > Hi Calvin > > Regarding the situation that the document becomes a protocol standard, > could you use instead of the FRAND terms, a similar disclosure > statement as the one that is commonly used in the IETF. For example, > below you can see a CISCO disclosure statement: > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/817/ > > Best regards, > Georgios > > On 12/8/2010, "Calvin Chu" <cc2962@columbia.edu> wrote: > > >Yes. If it is Experimental Status, it is free, no need or > obligation to > >notify us. Unless you want to. > > > >Calvin Chu > >Senior Licensing Officer > >Columbia Technology Ventures > >http://techventures.columbia.edu > >Tel: (212) 851-4140 > >Twitter: cchu > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:00 PM > >To: Jukka Manner; Calvin Chu > >Cc: nsis@ietf.org > >Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia > University > >in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to > >draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 > > > >I'd particularly like to know if the terms mean this: > > > >If the draft is published in Experimental status, then the > IPR is free > >(forever). > > > >Al > > > >At 03:27 PM 12/8/2010, Jukka Manner wrote: > >>Hi Calvin, I'm not an expert in how people should or should not > >>disclose and phrase ipr statements. I hope other people on > this list > >>who are more experienced could provide guidance on how to > resolve this > >>issue in a positive way. > >> > >>Regards, > >>Jukka > >> > >>On 8.12.2010 20:17, Calvin Chu wrote: > >>>All, > >>> > >>>I've just subscribed to the list so I'm trying to catch up to the > >>>current conversation. > >>> > >>>I'm open to modifying the terms, please send me > suggestions. As to > >>>whether Columbia would just modify the terms arbitrarily later, I > >could > >>>get it into writing if that helps. > >>> > >>>I've been informed there are some questions regarding the specific > >FRAND > >>>terms in non-open source commercial situations. My thoughts were to > >set > >>>a simple flat fee for that sole situation. If this is > reasonable, I > >>>can defer to members of this list to suggest what may be fair. If > >this > >>>does not sound reasonable, I'll do my best to make things right by > >this > >>>list members, after all, Columbia neglected to declare on time. > >>> > >>>Best regards, > >>> > >>>Calvin Chu > >>>Senior Licensing Officer > >>>Columbia Technology Ventures > >>>http://techventures.columbia.edu > >>>Tel: (212) 851-4140 > >>>Twitter: cchu > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf > >Of > >>>Roland Bless > >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:24 AM > >>>To: Fu, Xiaoming > >>>Cc: Jukka Manner; nsis@ietf.org > >>>Subject: Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia > >University > >>>in the City of New York's Statement about IPR related to > >>>draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 > >>> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>[sorry, previous message was cut, I accidentally hit the > send button > >>>instead of the edit menu :-)] > >>> > >>>On 08.12.2010 08:55, Fu, Xiaoming wrote: > >>>>I would vote for c). > >>> > >>>It's not clear to me what prevents the Columbia University from > >>>changing terms back later if they are changing the terms > now on our > >>>request? > >>> > >>>>a) Do members of the WG accept those terms, > >>>>b) Do you want to redesign the protocol to work around the IPR, > >>>>c) Do you want to ask Columbia to modify the terms, or > >>>>d) Do we drop the document from the WG (authors can still pursue > >>>publications through the independent track)? > >>> > >>>Jukka said: > >>>>Please indicate your preference within two weeks, by > Friday 17th at: > >>>> > >>>>http://www.doodle.com/mb2gvfit64bnya99 > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>> Roland > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nsis mailing list > >>>nsis@ietf.org > >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > >> > >>-- > >>Jukka MJ Manner, Professor, PhD. Phone: +358+(0)9+470 22481 > >>Aalto University Mobile: +358+(0)50+5112973 > >>Department of Communications Fax: +358+(0)9+470 22474 > >>and Networking (Comnet) Office: G320a (Otakaari 5A) > >>P.O. Box 13000, FIN-00076 Aalto E-mail: jukka.manner@tkk.fi > >>Finland www.netlab.hut.fi/~jmanner/ > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nsis mailing list > >>nsis@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nsis mailing list > >nsis@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia U… IETF Secretariat
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… James M. Polk
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Al Morton
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fred Baker
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fred Baker
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Al Morton
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Lars Eggert
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Takako Sanda
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Lars Eggert
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… James M. Polk
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Al Morton
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fu, Xiaoming
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Lars Eggert
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Al Morton
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Lars Eggert
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fred Baker
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Calvin Chu
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fred Baker
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Fred Baker
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Al Morton
- Re: [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columb… Lars Eggert
- [NSIS] IPR Disclosure: The Trustees of Columbia U… IETF Secretariat
- [NSIS] WGLC: draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] WGLC: draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [NSIS] WGLC: draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 Roland Bless
- Re: [NSIS] WGLC: draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 Jukka Manner
- Re: [NSIS] WGLC: draft-ietf-nsis-tunnel-13 Lars Eggert