Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption

Heiko Gerstung <> Thu, 03 June 2021 10:30 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370053A3358 for <>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WtQUSYEgz59b for <>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96F9D3A3356 for <>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from (unknown []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8AA4B71C002A; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:47 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=dkim; t=1622716247; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=X2RPSJ0pSZFdZzL6jMGAvV0lBYQ9NcDq7NALu1GLLYA=; b=DHYz4sP9TOs5Cy5vd+ancahy3TGswenrZKZ/u/pvYOr/mAgHrSUN/tljrfPCmXJeEjWapc Y3wxDADkcjfXudwzAYpfE1X4S98mivKfx7xWwEwal9mbqKlsPtyI6f27Z6sWuKvapYEgtZ Q6Y3TaJJqo9fC4+yUZdz15nDb01YvOhKdL0scmtoAoTFLOCGAG/qDnhB6f471WWSLoPRV4 5SK/Eikmi+AWIfTkV1GcSr+DyMjCXbLAH/sxYKPxZNWIEGpz43U/sIBnNOiLYdUqvQHteq VZemw9ZimhuffN3BLAoLaL10bLeH7NH1dapPWlMH3LkZeYWCgjxmW7DW67bhEw==
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:46 +0200 (CEST)
X-Footer: bWVpbmJlcmcuZGU=
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.49.21050901
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:44 +0200
Message-ID: <>
Thread-Topic: Antwort: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
References: <> <> <YLYCLIEA4/unB6/5@localhost> <> <YLYheZYTSflAdlrF@localhost> <> <YLY3f2/5k1Hjebf7@localhost> <> <YLZVS4jwGOnMIk6g@localhost> <> <YLeFyqZp6bZY9nY9@localhost> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Importance: Normal
X-Priority: 3
Thread-Index: AZ2x3tU+N2Q1YmNiNjI4Mjk1ZmQzNg==
From: Heiko Gerstung <>
To: "" <>
Cc: "" <>
X-SM-outgoing: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="----F356FCAEF4463839463A879D0A653685"
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 10:30:57 -0000


> Von: <>

> Datum: Donnerstag, 3. Juni 2021 um 09:39

> An: Heiko Gerstung <>

> Cc: "" <>

> Betreff: Antwort: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption


>>>At this point I would be open to change the name of the draft so that it does

> not contain "NTS" anymore, if that helps. It seems that quite a number of the au

> thors do not like that we based our proposal on their work and would rather like

> unicast PTP to use something else as a key exchange protocol. [...]


> As one of the editors, I do feel misrepresented here.

> There are five of us, only three of whom have spoken about NTS4UPTP at all, with

> only one who spoke out in rejection.


Apologies for that, I based that assumption on a feeling and not on factual data (which is never a good thing IMHO but happens quite frequently in real life :).


> I will get back to you (after studying the draft in more detail) on what I think

> about how you based your proposal on our work, but I am perfectly happy that yo

> u did.

Glad to hear that. 


> @Daniel: would it change your stance if this draft were not named anything with

> "NTS" at all?


>>> It is pretty hard to try and compare our proposal against a bunch of ideas th

>>> at are thrown into the discussion. Most of the proposed alternatives seem simple

>>> and easy to describe with two or three sentences, but when we drafted our propo

>>> sal, we found out (once again) that when you try to describe something in writte

>>> n form, a lot of details and corner cases come up that you have to deal with. In

>>> the end, you often end up with at least 10-20 pages, no matter how simple the i

>>> dea sounds in the beginning.


> Yes, absolutely agree.

> And in those pages, you are pretty likely to stumble over the detail that will m

> ake your draft more controversial than you thought.

For sure, but up until now I cannot say that we actually discussed the draft so far.


> This is why I want to clarify that (unless I ever explicitly say so) none of my

> technical discussion, wishful thinking or even design sketching is to be taken a

> gainst the NTS4UPTP draft (or other drafts).

OK, thanks. It sometimes gets confusing if those ideas/new concepts are included in a response to a message that deals with the draft. 





Heiko Gerstung 

Managing Director 


MEINBERG® Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG 

Lange Wand 9 

D-31812 Bad Pyrmont, Germany 

Phone: +49 (0)5281 9309-404 

Fax: +49 (0)5281 9309-9404 


Amtsgericht Hannover 17HRA 100322 

Geschäftsführer/Management: Günter Meinberg, Werner Meinberg, Andre Hartmann, Heiko Gerstung 







Do not miss our Time Synchronization Blog:


Connect via LinkedIn: