Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption

Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de> Thu, 03 June 2021 10:30 UTC

Return-Path: <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370053A3358 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=meinberg.de
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WtQUSYEgz59b for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server1a.meinberg.de (server1a.meinberg.de [176.9.44.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96F9D3A3356 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from seppmail.py.meinberg.de (unknown [193.158.22.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server1a.meinberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8AA4B71C002A; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:47 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=meinberg.de; s=dkim; t=1622716247; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=X2RPSJ0pSZFdZzL6jMGAvV0lBYQ9NcDq7NALu1GLLYA=; b=DHYz4sP9TOs5Cy5vd+ancahy3TGswenrZKZ/u/pvYOr/mAgHrSUN/tljrfPCmXJeEjWapc Y3wxDADkcjfXudwzAYpfE1X4S98mivKfx7xWwEwal9mbqKlsPtyI6f27Z6sWuKvapYEgtZ Q6Y3TaJJqo9fC4+yUZdz15nDb01YvOhKdL0scmtoAoTFLOCGAG/qDnhB6f471WWSLoPRV4 5SK/Eikmi+AWIfTkV1GcSr+DyMjCXbLAH/sxYKPxZNWIEGpz43U/sIBnNOiLYdUqvQHteq VZemw9ZimhuffN3BLAoLaL10bLeH7NH1dapPWlMH3LkZeYWCgjxmW7DW67bhEw==
Received: from srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de (srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de [172.16.3.65]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by seppmail.py.meinberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:46 +0200 (CEST)
X-Footer: bWVpbmJlcmcuZGU=
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.49.21050901
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 12:30:44 +0200
Message-ID: <A20FC4F4-2626-4060-8DF9-886ADB0E23C8@meinberg.de>
Thread-Topic: Antwort: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
References: <B5F7602A-B084-4B21-9EB2-D25AB030E1EA@meinberg.de> <7F9B8D13-BC90-4E15-9BDF-81714DF0F0C6@meinberg.de> <YLYCLIEA4/unB6/5@localhost> <1DAA3605-CC04-46DE-8CFC-975BED7D4160@meinberg.de> <YLYheZYTSflAdlrF@localhost> <CEB3F4AA-E318-4540-BD6C-4437E3F5F58A@meinberg.de> <YLY3f2/5k1Hjebf7@localhost> <7167BC2B-1889-4DF5-AF7C-BAAAB3586841@meinberg.de> <YLZVS4jwGOnMIk6g@localhost> <24DF9BF2-3072-4152-80D6-9F10D53A59AF@meinberg.de> <YLeFyqZp6bZY9nY9@localhost> <OF32A3C2C9.BA5F362B-ONC12586E9.002820A8-C12586E9.002A048D@ptb.de>
In-Reply-To: <OF32A3C2C9.BA5F362B-ONC12586E9.002820A8-C12586E9.002A048D@ptb.de>
Importance: Normal
X-Priority: 3
Thread-Index: AZ2x3tU+N2Q1YmNiNjI4Mjk1ZmQzNg==
From: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>
To: "kristof.teichel@ptb.de" <kristof.teichel@ptb.de>
Cc: "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>
X-SM-outgoing: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="----F356FCAEF4463839463A879D0A653685"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/8huuGDI-mT5In8dAQjt3BKRAHlA>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Re: NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 10:30:57 -0000

 

> Von: <kristof.teichel@ptb.de>

> Datum: Donnerstag, 3. Juni 2021 um 09:39

> An: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>

> Cc: "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>

> Betreff: Antwort: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption

> 

>>>At this point I would be open to change the name of the draft so that it does

> not contain "NTS" anymore, if that helps. It seems that quite a number of the au

> thors do not like that we based our proposal on their work and would rather like

> unicast PTP to use something else as a key exchange protocol. [...]

> 

> As one of the editors, I do feel misrepresented here.

> There are five of us, only three of whom have spoken about NTS4UPTP at all, with

> only one who spoke out in rejection.

 

Apologies for that, I based that assumption on a feeling and not on factual data (which is never a good thing IMHO but happens quite frequently in real life :).

 

> I will get back to you (after studying the draft in more detail) on what I think

> about how you based your proposal on our work, but I am perfectly happy that yo

> u did.

Glad to hear that. 

 

> @Daniel: would it change your stance if this draft were not named anything with

> "NTS" at all?

 

>>> It is pretty hard to try and compare our proposal against a bunch of ideas th

>>> at are thrown into the discussion. Most of the proposed alternatives seem simple

>>> and easy to describe with two or three sentences, but when we drafted our propo

>>> sal, we found out (once again) that when you try to describe something in writte

>>> n form, a lot of details and corner cases come up that you have to deal with. In

>>> the end, you often end up with at least 10-20 pages, no matter how simple the i

>>> dea sounds in the beginning.

> 

> Yes, absolutely agree.

> And in those pages, you are pretty likely to stumble over the detail that will m

> ake your draft more controversial than you thought.

For sure, but up until now I cannot say that we actually discussed the draft so far.

 

> This is why I want to clarify that (unless I ever explicitly say so) none of my

> technical discussion, wishful thinking or even design sketching is to be taken a

> gainst the NTS4UPTP draft (or other drafts).

OK, thanks. It sometimes gets confusing if those ideas/new concepts are included in a response to a message that deals with the draft. 

 

Regards,

   Heiko


-- 

Heiko Gerstung 

Managing Director 

 

MEINBERG® Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG 

Lange Wand 9 

D-31812 Bad Pyrmont, Germany 

Phone: +49 (0)5281 9309-404 

Fax: +49 (0)5281 9309-9404 

 

Amtsgericht Hannover 17HRA 100322 

Geschäftsführer/Management: Günter Meinberg, Werner Meinberg, Andre Hartmann, Heiko Gerstung 

 

Email: 

heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de

Web: 

Deutsch https://www.meinberg.de

English https://www.meinbergglobal.com

 

Do not miss our Time Synchronization Blog: 

https://blog.meinbergglobal.com

 

Connect via LinkedIn: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heikogerstung