Re: [Ntp] NTP Extensions (was Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp-22.txt> (Network Time Security for the Network Time Protocol) to Proposed Standard)

Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> Wed, 19 February 2020 22:29 UTC

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To: Daniel Franke <dfoxfranke@gmail.com>
Cc: Watson Ladd <watson@cloudflare.com>, NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
References: <20200219084813.E4C6840605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> <F9A58B4B-25A7-4652-8963-6849DE359C5A@kaloom.com> <1582136379878.71291@akamai.com> <2acb8507-c0b5-a370-d6ab-564398ae9602@nwtime.org> <CAN2QdAEfBx_DRnqFNs+paBBPijaYfL0m0tqBS2k47q96sbe2RA@mail.gmail.com> <6fea5d44-0124-499a-1b3f-b25f8d09a1ab@nwtime.org> <CAN2QdAF+ZsyLDMB587kEQ7B4+J7JgHt7Bbbdn_aCYqoUZ79TdA@mail.gmail.com> <2442cd46-8fa2-0911-f5c5-f94890d9637c@nwtime.org> <CAJm83bCxSSMTcpEGA6BUbfMTKm4gqVrmjGuOZ1fnph_BzODQtg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:29:08 -0800
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTP Extensions (was Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp-22.txt> (Network Time Security for the Network Time Protocol) to Proposed Standard)
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On 2/19/2020 2:25 PM, Daniel Franke wrote:
> RFC 5905 likewise provides 16 bits.

But there was a STRUCTURE to those bits that is now being ignored.

H
--
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 17:15 Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org
> <mailto:stenn@nwtime.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     On 2/19/2020 2:11 PM, Watson Ladd wrote:
>     > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 2:08 PM Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org
>     <mailto:stenn@nwtime.org>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 2/19/2020 1:59 PM, Watson Ladd wrote:
>     >>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:33 PM Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org
>     <mailto:stenn@nwtime.org>> wrote:
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Except that we did discuss this, years ago, and there was a
>     meeting with
>     >>>> me and Karen and I forget who else where we specifically said that
>     >>>> 0xnn04 was already allocated for NTS.  I've long been saying we
>     need a
>     >>>> way to make progress with EF proposals that does not cause
>     collisions
>     >>>> between inplementations and avoids flag days.  Furthermore, I
>     told Karen
>     >>>> that the NTP Project was using 0xNN0[5-9] for other proposals
>     and that
>     >>>> with no progress on changing the way the NTP Extension Field IANA
>     >>>> registry was being managed, that 1) the NTP Project has a
>     chalkboard
>     >>>> that we're using for this purpose, and 2) if anybody wants to
>     work on an
>     >>>> EF they should just let me know.
>     >>>
>     >>> The way to achieve this is to make an experimental/private use range
>     >>> for the registry. The registry is currently IETF review, which is
>     >>> annoying: it's big enough to be Specification Required unless
>     >>> proposals take large chunks of the range. It's not impossible to
>     >>> change this with WG consensus.
>     >>
>     >> Sorry, no.  There are 8 bits available for this.  If you would have
>     >> followed the design that was put in place 20 years ago you'd know
>     this.
>     >
>     > RFC 7822 allocates 16 bits for extension types.
> 
>     RFC7822 was a terrible mistake in many ways, and I continue to regret
>     that I did not read it carefully when the vote was taken.  I spent a lot
>     of time and effort trying to clean that up and got no support for those
>     efforts.
> 
>     So here we are.
> 
>     -- 
>     Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org <mailto:stenn@nwtime.org>>
>     http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
> 
>     _______________________________________________
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-- 
Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!