IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chronos

Neta R S <neta.r.schiff@gmail.com> Mon, 02 September 2019 13:03 UTC

Return-Path: <neta.r.schiff@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD9C120119 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Sep 2019 06:03:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3LJUiuq6tPc for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 2 Sep 2019 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8427120110 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Sep 2019 06:03:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id m24so12798033ljg.8 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Mon, 02 Sep 2019 06:03:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9mtahPMRQssCCUWPRNOkRwSWO8ko6NQ4PnJq7U6bKn8=; b=V8tbWpqiqWQdCjDgC4nuGBLmtLttlKUf/MKbYmZTts8ntXTvB9/2b4+d1GmYzQfOOD icb06ppGBbZTeCRWOROedTbzPOmmvumQn3/5KA1icBRlwottoucfAmcke146Slp3glC2 xUpkX0pg/U1KWfoEdBcoTN0z4ERsxioZd2loq3RLmeYRsPzxYyvO5Ngs1VRHH7eXLRcJ /skWuCEwhVoVzD8D3OxzRA7nzOj6X5DojmwXNhmTZdKDsyh7zB2n7od7LmFU6U2kli6P yEQAyMGdCCRDGYNtRkMD1NF+8iH5EyhCmNv3m/SNuz3y9bmX129yWhUED9/slAsGjuEo kFHA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9mtahPMRQssCCUWPRNOkRwSWO8ko6NQ4PnJq7U6bKn8=; b=tImcoi5zdpE3Q0scb/KcpD6KHUTYt2p4XFA5x9HhgWSIto1xCdNlRn0tOGyJyWBnTQ VeflgLTuRFHvjd0aDBtRuq1wp8c/kso1jcqT6b8uEHcjRorllYJ2uapA8PlHlr+H4A6Y uuY/b24elEg+2EyHW7v2sKtjQDxjElMSkFgCkTlxj8/RQyfxaV+M/k6d5Ohwxw/4+d5S Ol15iDfAZ2BO6N3ppzs0Z7z4k/X3HQtfuF0GQlr3e3GM5jwEigd3DBIlTj5D0g4L226A 2vFVtwSlMNn5N1xN2B1rc6BZMzFSI6DDeEeMtdips5s73WgCojSm8ejH0od1OGVxNDlf QswA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWsUTJlG9xQjDJpXdQIY4r75qFULDRLEy3DGtGgH/QIvHkSXiFr fsCZP7v2iZ8JTIkpAmvCbZPY+PgQLielON+zs/LX3SC7I50=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzyPpQpl+fYh96JZ80yH/yFsIV/N1n7J/F0G9pFjGDbVIDw2pRm47e7UOe7BEDXbIfbeSvDN/XSjahqpsJG7YQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1104:: with SMTP id d4mr8647678ljo.90.1567429408997; Mon, 02 Sep 2019 06:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <599D739B-4E2B-4C4F-B265-10DA277DC4FA@isoc.org> <20190902115915.GE15024@localhost> <CAM-HxCOe1=Jn4g=p+Uj9QvzNwCq7hxZJS23Sp-hJb=MA6uNoGg@mail.gmail.com> <651c7da3-33a3-aecd-c7a7-8f1c4ec05e9a@nwtime.org>
In-Reply-To: <651c7da3-33a3-aecd-c7a7-8f1c4ec05e9a@nwtime.org>
From: Neta R S <neta.r.schiff@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 16:03:17 +0300
Message-ID: <CAM-HxCN6jDTpSL2UjhNzQM9g3xH7ja-4SozAnDT_=NzFDX4E=A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org>
Cc: ntp@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000022438705919199c9"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/OUf1GMaR2oDG0bzrZKbet-Z1gKM>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chronos
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 13:03:32 -0000

Hi,

Chronos' security guarantees were analysed in the following paper:
https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ndss2018_02A-2_Deutsch_paper.pdf

(which is also referred in the draft).

Best,
Neta

On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 3:55 PM Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote:

> I am opposed to the adoption of this draft as anything other than an
> experimental proposal.
>
> On 9/2/2019 5:49 AM, Neta R S wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Chronos has a provable security guarantees compared to the current
> > NTPv4, even when facing MitM attacker.
>
> What *exactly* are these provable security guarantees?
>
> I suspect people are drawing incorrect inferences from "provable
> security guarantees".
>
> H
> --
> > Thus, we suggested Chronos as NTPv4 watchdog and named the draft
> > accordingly.
> > We'll consider your comment regarding the draft's name, but in the worse
> > case (where the MitM controls the client's gateway) I am not sure there
> > is a solution.
> >
> > Regarding Daniel's and Kristof's comments, we agree that experimental
> > might be a more appropriate intended status.
> >
> > Best,
> > Neta
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 2:59 PM Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com
> > <mailto:mlichvar@redhat.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 05:37:10AM +0000, Karen O'Donoghue wrote:
> >     > A Secure Selection and Filtering Mechanism for the Network Time
> >     Protocol Version 4
> >     > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schiff-ntp-chronos/
> >     >
> >     > Please reply with your opinion on whether or not the working group
> >     should adopt this document including your willingness to review and
> >     contribute..
> >
> >     I support adoption of this draft. I would like the group to consider
> >     using a slightly different title and more careful use of the word
> >     "secure" in the document. The algorithms improve resiliency against
> >     some MITM attacks, but in the worst case security doesn't change.
> >
> >     --
> >     Miroslav Lichvar
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     ntp mailing list
> >     ntp@ietf.org <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ntp mailing list
> > ntp@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
> >
>
> --
> Harlan Stenn, Network Time Foundation
> http://nwtime.org - be a Member!
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntp mailing list
> ntp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email