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Re: [Ntp] SNTP, Old crufty software

Greg.Dowd@microchip.com Tue, 16 August 2022 17:51 UTC

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From: Greg.Dowd@microchip.com
To: ntp@ietf.org
Thread-Topic: [Ntp] SNTP, Old crufty software
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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 17:51:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] SNTP, Old crufty software
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Wasn't there an "undocumented" authentication mechanism in windows using ntp with symm active or symm passive request?  A different way of parsing the MAC?  I "think" just sending back server worked for unauthenticated but honestly, it's been so long I could be wrong.

I can say that just about every network admin I work with still uses w32time on some box to verify our ntp server functionality.

Thanks..Greg

Greg Dowd  Microchip - Freq & Time Div.

Assoc. Technical Fellow - Engineering
3870 N First St, San Jose, CA 95134
Direct: 408-964-7643
Greg.Dowd@microchip.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ntp <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:08 AM
To: Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
Cc: Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net>; ntp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ntp] SNTP, Old crufty software

EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the content is safe

martin.burnicki@meinberg.de said:
> I remember some years ago when Windows XP/Server 2003 was current, the 
> dumb SNTP client (w32time) shipped with that Windows versions sent 
> "peer" requests to the NTP server by default,

Thanks.  Pool servers are still seeing that.  That's the tiny bump on the tail that I mentioned.  It's ballpark of 1/2% of the NTPv1 requests.

Do you know what that version of w32time requires for the Mode in a response?
Will it accept Server?

If nothing else, we need to make a list of the types of v1 requests that are being sent and the responses they need.

> Since SNTP basically uses the same packet format as NTP, in my opinion 
> the real S(imple) attribute refers to the way the packet exchange is 
> evaluated at the client side.

> I've seen implementations where the client didn't even try to 
> compensate the network delay, and just used the server's transmission 
> time stamp to adjust the client time. Probably because the programmers 
> though that the resulting accuracy id "good enough".

Right.  If all you need is within a second or two, it may not be worthwhile to do that admittedly tiny extra calculation.  It's just a couple more lines of code to maintain.

I was thinking that we need a section on clocks and networks so people can decide how complicated they need to make their "simple" client and/or how often they need to poll.

------

Speaking of cruft...  :)

I'm seeing a few v3 and v4 packets with Broadcast Mode.  Anybody know who who/what is doing that?  Some of it looks like real traffic: 64 second polling, LOCL in the RefID, mostly 0s, looks like a time in the transmit slot.



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