Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Timescales
Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de> Wed, 09 December 2020 23:02 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730B93A17EA for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 15:02:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=meinberg.de
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zub4K0uKXBmR for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 15:02:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from server1a.meinberg.de (server1a.meinberg.de [176.9.44.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7592A3A17E5 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 15:02:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de (unknown [193.158.22.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server1a.meinberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CD1D071C07F9 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:02:25 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=meinberg.de; s=dkim; t=1607554945; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=pR4lAURkH2l4t9bd5RxIJI8O2ELANBz1LcGqOFTE7K0=; b=jifsErwXuF/8iDfO02CXPHYAv3WDZrhRLozp8LD86SEHrzmvI4x/XZCDRg6gFSTW04lWsr 3EPYyxIiWpQ+8EXhl22b7pTFClwzKxdLzenKJEsI2ahBTcFu7kKS7SI2u15BvAhDx0ms2S pXFedVH9xV12MxyBiguQZJMEu/4F2gxklt4jP62Kk2HHMjSrbIgqO+p840pIvXsuaBBPhE 5NirQ6NMNheJKhqS+S0dOo60f2yXjIlC+c4XUm3ZgAzmU1yXb3M77VinWsDRtoePjS1eid 0cyUA1Bqm2oAa1aXvPLHoOAKpHIqrus+TEbPW1tv3dlYZUcOWGT2eXYyO3O69w==
X-Footer: bWVpbmJlcmcuZGU=
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by srv-kerioconnect.py.meinberg.de with ESMTPSA (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits)) for ntp@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:02:21 +0100
To: ntp@ietf.org
References: <20201209101830.7CB0240605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> <OF28E50805.9A9BA1AE-ONC1258639.003E2790-C1258639.003E2793@ptb.de>
From: Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>
Organization: Meinberg Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG, Bad Pyrmont, Germany
Message-ID: <75021d5c-73fb-9cc1-59d8-0a1ea24e41db@meinberg.de>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:02:21 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <OF28E50805.9A9BA1AE-ONC1258639.003E2790-C1258639.003E2793@ptb.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/fbEN99hvMyilBT3XWQe2t5tsYf8>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Timescales
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 23:02:31 -0000
kristof.teichel@ptb.de wrote: > I've never understood how it came to be that this was considered the > crazy idea and synchronizing to UTC where you have to deal with a system > with irregular unpredictable leap seconds (that cause trouble in both > on-wire protocols and implementations that actually discipline a > device's clock) was considered the only possible sane solution. If you keep in mind what was available before NTP was introduced ... The original IBM PC didn't even provide a batter buffered RTC chip, and you had to enter the current date and (local) time whenever the (DOS-) system booted. As I've mentioned earlier, I think the rotocol is fine as long as you only need UTC, and leap second warnings can be properly propagated. The problem is what *operating systems* do to handle a leap second, and applications suffer from the way the operating system do it. > Do we really have fewer problems now than we would if we had to deal > with synchronization to TAI on one hand and managing TAI-UTC offset on > the other hand? Because it does not seem so, and to me, using a > jump-free/continuous timescale for on-wire parts of synchronization > protocols seems like a no-brainer. If you use TAI, at some point the TAI offset has to be fed into the time synchronization chain, and some maintenance is required to do this reliably over time. Martin -- Martin Burnicki Senior Software Engineer MEINBERG Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG Email: martin.burnicki@meinberg.de Phone: +49 5281 9309-414 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinburnicki/ Lange Wand 9, 31812 Bad Pyrmont, Germany Amtsgericht Hannover 17HRA 100322 Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors: Günter Meinberg, Werner Meinberg, Andre Hartmann, Heiko Gerstung Websites: https://www.meinberg.de https://www.meinbergglobal.com Training: https://www.meinberg.academy
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Timescales Hal Murray
- [Ntp] Antwort: Timescales kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Magnus Danielson
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Timescales Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales FUSTE Emmanuel
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales FUSTE Emmanuel
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Steve Allen
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Warner Losh
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Warner Losh
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antwort: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Philip Prindeville
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Timescales Steve Allen
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Warner Losh
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Steve Allen
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timesca… Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Re: Timescales Magnus Danielson