Re: [Ntp] comments on draft-mlichvar-ntp-ntpv5-03 / Extension fields

Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net> Thu, 02 December 2021 13:56 UTC

Return-Path: <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0443A0907 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Dec 2021 05:56:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.752
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.752 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.852, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YGmfY0uTWJLX for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Dec 2021 05:56:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from chessie.everett.org (chessie.everett.org [IPv6:2001:470:1:205::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA86D3A110A for <ntp@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Dec 2021 05:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.0.101] (pool-108-26-179-179.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.26.179.179]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by chessie.everett.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4J4cts6dZCzMNRl; Thu, 2 Dec 2021 13:56:21 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <7911709e-9b34-1257-b5f4-1cf48baaa363@pdmconsulting.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2021 08:56:20 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.2
Content-Language: en-US
To: Dan Drown <dan-ntp@drown.org>, ntp@ietf.org
References: <20211123131501.Horde.ErUH7VWw3Nr2PFkAGzGIEuI@mail.drown.org> <20211125214748.Horde.K2Fa5qir5iPLYRvfQJBMx8m@mail.drown.org> <YadcBggcGB2plRcB@localhost> <55229281-25a1-0cc6-ac17-ce6647dae4f3@pdmconsulting.net> <20211201224356.Horde.aBC3OSs9QW7cxJ59zzU0MmF@mail.drown.org>
From: Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>
In-Reply-To: <20211201224356.Horde.aBC3OSs9QW7cxJ59zzU0MmF@mail.drown.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/mT-PlcN98BzhtVZ4zKbVGRrT9vw>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] comments on draft-mlichvar-ntp-ntpv5-03 / Extension fields
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Time Protocol <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2021 13:56:33 -0000

On 12/1/21 11:43 PM, Dan Drown wrote:
> Quoting Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>:
>> No, it probably should be that last extension and not the first. 
>> Extensions should not, in general, be ordered. A correction like this 
>> should be after any MAC which does authenticate the packet so that 
>> this correction is included in the MAC.
>
> I'm assuming you mean that the correction is not included in the MAC. 
> I had not considered authenticated/signed packets, and I agree that 
> the corrrection would have to be outside of any signature. But this 
> restriction should probably be mentioned in the rfc.
>
Yes.
>>> [...] it will still be more difficult to
>>> implement than the PTP correction field as NTP works with timestamps
>>> corresponding to the end of the reception instead of beginning.
>>
>> See RFC8721. I believe that Tal did implement this.
>
> I'm assuming you mean RFC7821, but I don't see anything in it about 
> adjusting hardware timestamps to match NTP's legacy of software 
> timestamp measurements, just the parts needed to keep the UDP checksum 
> consistent after changing the TX timestamp in the packet.
>
Yes, RFC7821. That was exactly what Tal was doing.

Danny