Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft

Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com> Fri, 04 June 2021 16:46 UTC

Return-Path: <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7223A18C4 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:46:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=meinbergfunkuhren.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zlMWVJrWd-1N for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr60062.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.6.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 786933A18C2 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 09:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=QAsat6w/M6YSm+ajSrrcK1CGoiX2E0adG501CsIJv0iCwnyxGekCzvWsKcthflTQVqhAnwlec3q6MzLKtqLa3eA2/zcqcD0P/RywskywAL9CJ3hvjMHmGAcoBFIQ3FJbyDlVl7Jyb/k4aHYR8Ga/sE7PtE3FzV2zrKny0nuUUoPjAiQiC9eGOumiY2KwKko1CsWNUv/OxlPhotzKizwwq4ND6tqXKb0/NlCP8Lv57c1LuXMCwdzY/smzJYu+2NeNwaTe1svTBdIoYbfbq6TYnwKIvZghi650PgYpPMBpsSATi/agXCit4BLORX8LEeRF0oW8nQ9SSnMe/ENZZa6MKg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ZW4srLycs7viEKfkqVFVzXH4JQq4vSi3vdIyk+xSfsI=; b=ioJv5VChs8UmJXcPD0XeB/NQkBh426ejTf5gFqUS5U1an7RVdiwykvIgfo+5kdlZojRAXpy4e117BjumHwrE0DFuUun6K44UN/rVGmUj27inDLUPnmKnpQYrgYzrwm19LyAce8JS/9SZktKPKRd++QM9OtHlaQN5mzHDhav1ET33XHbP74eDu1RF1kFIXiH9xwxjEcQahz9RhtIk/qjRG2Mse6Xf4gi3dwNKn5MFbiQHMd4SbRyj1XbNm0m2UslOMejovASX1wpNghLQL59mJ7ncXVtMtVATcGEoARQJ8sfU9PU/nXC+kaMJnxTA+dxkiUZkIrvAWC8CHCfPpfBYww==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=meinberg-usa.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=meinberg-usa.com; dkim=pass header.d=meinberg-usa.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=meinbergfunkuhren.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-meinbergfunkuhren-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ZW4srLycs7viEKfkqVFVzXH4JQq4vSi3vdIyk+xSfsI=; b=lpsabiy/7c+VQ/sszfadieB5hnCjQdw/nT1gufLvXPNoFZlbUyJv6rboJ+5Apq+byFwkTMFRwJD/whQhKs0+HUW4AtLau5JCbfypVy/EwhGUoxBjZZv8/SMcvYhUuWRMCLsexGt3W+2f6/DrfsaqFRJ9YOngL98dH1AK25fNCKk=
Received: from AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:102::15) by AM6PR02MB4326.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:50::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4173.21; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 16:45:52 +0000
Received: from AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7021:78f3:a3bd:4cd9]) by AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7021:78f3:a3bd:4cd9%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4195.024; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 16:45:52 +0000
From: Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
To: Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>, Dieter Sibold <dsibold.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>, NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft
Thread-Index: AZ2x3tU+Nzc3YzJlM2FkNGYwMmM3ZfNMMj2AABW41oAARCCGZQ==
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 16:45:52 +0000
Message-ID: <AM7PR02MB5765DAE47BF68F331CBE7BE8CF3B9@AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <C3693A60-E1A0-4570-91C3-876EB584B468@meinberg.de> <A2CB8908-86BE-4FB0-959C-7FF1DED9B421@gmail.com>, <YLiMp17LeGVOTp+r@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <YLiMp17LeGVOTp+r@localhost>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: redhat.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;redhat.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=meinberg-usa.com;
x-originating-ip: [64.30.82.72]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e69f1e88-1a45-4a76-f62c-08d927783766
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR02MB4326:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM6PR02MB4326A8B35589DAA421C67E33CF3B9@AM6PR02MB4326.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(396003)(136003)(39830400003)(346002)(376002)(366004)(110136005)(54906003)(26005)(7696005)(86362001)(8936002)(76116006)(91956017)(5660300002)(186003)(52536014)(66556008)(9686003)(66476007)(64756008)(66446008)(6506007)(44832011)(966005)(71200400001)(53546011)(316002)(66574015)(83380400001)(38100700002)(4326008)(2906002)(122000001)(166002)(33656002)(478600001)(55016002)(66946007)(8676002)(32563001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?Windows-1252?Q?KIYAe05uVrXlrNzXVaZ199UydgEC4lSS61C+/H6n3pIkp1uOSA2k5C56?= =?Windows-1252?Q?oCJ+WGhRN+6u7CBfbntMWo5oWvITJsUKaQhMSi12m/Kdh5fuh+se+/G9?= =?Windows-1252?Q?ooIw/2+/+iR+nl6uPeWoOjQWYlX70bQMwypM6oQs1k7L7uzofkIPzpzU?= =?Windows-1252?Q?HbRoEwQOQ0at6Lv6mTCmbj+c8PA4+FIN5a6GoUc7q2fqnz5MKMwIKh4C?= =?Windows-1252?Q?hyP46pfm0QeT/WlLM3QTPAfIDOsjKppK+IglBBgpBIQiUTcMgJz8+2xj?= =?Windows-1252?Q?XwNOJQDx8RW2/+AFwJSARaCjeAY/P+abuwIaH6BbcVa9ufWLUvzDjes7?= =?Windows-1252?Q?tzMA0EfKlDbkU6A+doOWq6zRe1WRriLDOmnDGtQmCt8S+lRycUKf0BgM?= =?Windows-1252?Q?oq+UVP40Ic5FdYLQo0SeJoM/4jOzgkz7pt1q6aihC7ppj3ff7ZQW+KVl?= =?Windows-1252?Q?CDhPiO/bkd3RK2EUVYqEnyZeHUuWnr4b3/xyZVS5Ew9VLPqx1Qqn2FfN?= =?Windows-1252?Q?hMGkCnu0KJlIgkVZM97aOTxQeMGtcV9LrAhu7ykSA/0tYPHvqarcIDfB?= =?Windows-1252?Q?k6RcPJZRSidR5K0Ek94U+cHQY2KW840Xdztvz1hljEM8fG4QNjjGVJa5?= =?Windows-1252?Q?+ScI5xgDQBtRQt20vHlwnuIY8uwoO7bbvK7t8ZIbU0NBY2p3JV2L/pLC?= =?Windows-1252?Q?YyRRqnoevtYbk1NeRKnhYTPoMYVF+Lt/PfBQCTx8UpyPYuwBa27/7gIq?= =?Windows-1252?Q?9MiV9TvLKKHHGoh+KlDnV1HWOmiya8CV5lYZGvrI3B7YKmguFzqLHOc6?= =?Windows-1252?Q?+YNHQ7+Rd3pvBtXfq+aNYNka7g2pec5dpWTIseZ4bRPt5uHwBKsC0xBR?= =?Windows-1252?Q?3yejWgc1Fp/SKqcHDx91l9lXpHpnycWVdwFEC6u0BHin90P2nz5mBZB0?= =?Windows-1252?Q?2/PYfQlf7l3vD9m8ymEvYLNY8IdhBHlLVVyWDvBpnZLqxPVEb/NBViWd?= =?Windows-1252?Q?dH4r2mjLbQZaGziAuZ1/GYUQSBkExGqCy0YaChrP84ZctNcrx5VXH5n1?= =?Windows-1252?Q?vu3ZFhtlQxvLMyxRI8HCVQQ1youd2RZVSnb9OSJTRynKV9+VOL7kB8ZL?= =?Windows-1252?Q?xC4cw2xM6mWICkNFN5BHjCLfsABmH9d0/DCa4mzfFFGTP/0/u5ZCLSWA?= =?Windows-1252?Q?KvXe+427qv8KIRfGVcI1v0s3rzEcBK6knasty49zugEGrjKk0v1rVkSk?= =?Windows-1252?Q?2PAYvmwF/OgsEcF2tFTAGjS9bBieWKS5AQNF1LhZQ+Llrkhzt8u09ViE?= =?Windows-1252?Q?v3uhvfoP+oYMyLfjpRzqnPi92lxZ1j/iJ8MP0CN4INT3MpTCxTiIXqST?= =?Windows-1252?Q?CpWhzkC5+Hm4blnG9vn/LEAAj20T4PdwI5EcXcNKiJfTZwSvCaiEoaeZ?= =?Windows-1252?Q?cKf8NWC/EtyPBMnwX5i3pQ=3D=3D?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM7PR02MB5765DAE47BF68F331CBE7BE8CF3B9AM7PR02MB5765eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: meinberg-usa.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e69f1e88-1a45-4a76-f62c-08d927783766
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jun 2021 16:45:52.7315 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d59904cd-769f-4368-8bd0-f5f435893a38
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: DUTNJ2D8f7XHDTO2HHrDw+So+UUUxIt4M9h4qJTNecX6y76QRj0NVFNAfqIzy1vx/jZOPFM8rQsksD6cOqQ9EK3W9c51C5t3+rljs60N+nA=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR02MB4326
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/n4rCuwCkEYE_qQszNUWSgngUrok>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2021 16:46:01 -0000

I always recommend to network operators that  If you are transfer time across the Internet it should be NTP.  Nevertheless, Inevitably someone is going to run PTP this way.  However, I don’t know that it is something that we need to protect or encourage.

People do run PTP over large telecom networks.  Power grid operators sometime run PTP between substations on large telecom like networks to back up GNSS.  Financial data centers sometime like to get time over fiber from a remote national lab.  These applications will likely eventual want to improve the robustness by a having a secure version of PTP.

Doug

From: ntp <ntp-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:03 AM
To: Dieter Sibold <dsibold.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>, NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft
On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 11:40:49PM +0200, Dieter Sibold wrote:
> In the past PTP is applied mainly in local networks but today it is going to
> be applied across Internet connection also.

Just to clarify, do you mean that people are now using PTP to
synchronize clocks over Internet, or that the servers are
accessible from Internet and that's why they need to be secured?

The former wouldn't make sense to me as PTP relies on hardware support
in routers/switches, which is generally missing on Internet.

--
Miroslav Lichvar

_______________________________________________
ntp mailing list
ntp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp