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Fri, 4 Jun 2021 16:45:52 +0000 From: Doug Arnold To: Miroslav Lichvar , Dieter Sibold CC: Heiko Gerstung , NTP WG Thread-Topic: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft Thread-Index: AZ2x3tU+Nzc3YzJlM2FkNGYwMmM3ZfNMMj2AABW41oAARCCGZQ== Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 16:45:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: redhat.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;redhat.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=meinberg-usa.com; x-originating-ip: [64.30.82.72] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e69f1e88-1a45-4a76-f62c-08d927783766 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR02MB4326: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: RuHp7u1OhV4vIM+aJwwQHimhhvII6qZgt8Qw6UFYabZz2C8n+sizyW/LIRfUcv+tgKSm8YpO2xdMPfexn31UUyosETOtkoHgEm2IqvuaNR7SkZHinffXhpA1DZWm1s5A7fN5aO+Q4JZ8LT6sG0CVZhu+d59joFfx9cEQkrp2mVRsWWnQubmXDasJG28JUQLhJrMKkEt0j0V42vXGx6u7JvmmtRJHR3PDpl+dEHMunvQYCshXZnLpWkqfZDvo+E3F683CIs1PRzR9hu5O6oXdEnzxGkZljObwnSiIpAOY2Zpn1s/1JhGHJmx5YIysjnD7UprK3OZvMfzXKuEO53EYeNmaoNxiCJa/P07Tpfti7l1IXPVMLMDp/Ufe05WiuNZajr1Nf3hfmkjdTKVPVxcYF0HNJkhclFCTFhCdRpbiSf5kERPgB8NCkTowW2HMFs1gE0TZ4ON9xL+Z4TTLnyDIb87O2RORvpwAKCqRbcC9u4hcm81xQhQRrV1B4DMd5cBbHe5ZZMdMKo5CT3t+PW2cKOZ86dFzHlWCc9qhwUUOat3Jcj1ngCcJfl6Vu9CvQpldCyvT6fDFOTVRpX6n55IinwY+ngAVKFLfdsWf+PoF20KG5mg9cOeZqn14mA9+sDR6q9SFr85FZAAxAUk3Gbb1eoiPvtwsYN4U8k9JsZNed89bvaOQKIKU+HaNBYfAp5SAjLkIW9oB68s/Mq9chwtlWbZVJHYKLyRJDFme5T5MuLlAsi/OjpZqREhfn+LnYelj9jXBXi/65ogR4xNuvvcfXg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_AM7PR02MB5765DAE47BF68F331CBE7BE8CF3B9AM7PR02MB5765eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: meinberg-usa.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR02MB5765.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e69f1e88-1a45-4a76-f62c-08d927783766 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jun 2021 16:45:52.7315 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d59904cd-769f-4368-8bd0-f5f435893a38 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: DUTNJ2D8f7XHDTO2HHrDw+So+UUUxIt4M9h4qJTNecX6y76QRj0NVFNAfqIzy1vx/jZOPFM8rQsksD6cOqQ9EK3W9c51C5t3+rljs60N+nA= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR02MB4326 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2021 16:46:01 -0000 --_000_AM7PR02MB5765DAE47BF68F331CBE7BE8CF3B9AM7PR02MB5765eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I always recommend to network operators that If you are transfer time acro= ss the Internet it should be NTP. Nevertheless, Inevitably someone is goin= g to run PTP this way. However, I don=92t know that it is something that w= e need to protect or encourage. People do run PTP over large telecom networks. Power grid operators someti= me run PTP between substations on large telecom like networks to back up GN= SS. Financial data centers sometime like to get time over fiber from a rem= ote national lab. These applications will likely eventual want to improve = the robustness by a having a secure version of PTP. Doug From: ntp on behalf of Miroslav Lichvar Date: Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:03 AM To: Dieter Sibold Cc: Heiko Gerstung , NTP WG = Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 11:40:49PM +0200, Dieter Sibold wrote: > In the past PTP is applied mainly in local networks but today it is going= to > be applied across Internet connection also. Just to clarify, do you mean that people are now using PTP to synchronize clocks over Internet, or that the servers are accessible from Internet and that's why they need to be secured? The former wouldn't make sense to me as PTP relies on hardware support in routers/switches, which is generally missing on Internet. -- Miroslav Lichvar _______________________________________________ ntp mailing list ntp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp --_000_AM7PR02MB5765DAE47BF68F331CBE7BE8CF3B9AM7PR02MB5765eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I always recommend to network operators that  I= f you are transfer time across the Internet it should be NTP.  Neverth= eless, Inevitably someone is going to run PTP this way.  However, I do= n=92t know that it is something that we need to protect or encourage.

 

People do run PTP over large telecom networks. = Power grid operators sometime run PTP between substations on large telecom= like networks to back up GNSS.  Financial data centers sometime like = to get time over fiber from a remote national lab.  These applications will likely eventual want to improve the rob= ustness by a having a secure version of PTP.

 

Doug

 

From: ntp <ntp-bounces= @ietf.org> on behalf of Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:03 AM
To: Dieter Sibold <dsibold.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung=3D40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org= >, NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP draft

On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 11:40:49PM +0200, Dieter Sib= old wrote:
> In the past PTP is applied mainly in local networks but today it is go= ing to
> be applied across Internet connection also.

Just to clarify, do you mean that people are now using PTP to
synchronize clocks over Internet, or that the servers are
accessible from Internet and that's why they need to be secured?

The former wouldn't make sense to me as PTP relies on hardware support
in routers/switches, which is generally missing on Internet.

--
Miroslav Lichvar

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ntp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/ntp

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