Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption

Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de> Wed, 02 June 2021 11:22 UTC

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Thread-Topic: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
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From: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung@meinberg.de>
To: Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>, Doug Arnold <doug.arnold=40meinberg-usa.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Heiko Gerstung <heiko.gerstung=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>, NTP WG <ntp@ietf.org>, Daniel Franke <dfoxfranke@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTS4UPTP Rev 03 - Formal request for WG adoption
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> 
> Am 02.06.21, 09:49 schrieb "ntp im Auftrag von Miroslav Lichvar" <ntp-bounces@ie
> tf.org im Auftrag von mlichvar@redhat.com>gt;:
> 
> On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 12:27:24AM +0000, Doug Arnold wrote:
>> Sorry about the dangling PTP is at the end.  I hit send accidently,
>>
>> I was going to say that PTP is … going to have a security mechanism, becau
>> se industry is making it a requirement.  It would be easiest for implementers an
>> d network operators if it was as much like NTS as possible.  The NTP working gro
>> up is the group in the best position to help solve this problem because you have
>> just been through it for NTP, and because of the security expertise in the IETF
>> .
> 
> The trouble is that PTP is very different from NTP. It's more like the
> NTP broadcast mode, which the WG tried to cover in NTP, but ultimately
> gave up. If the PTP folks want all of the security of NTS4NTP, they
> need to add an NTP-like mode to PTP. A stateless mode where an event
> message has an event response. You know, something like the Sync
> Monitor extension specified by Meinberg.

I strongly disagree with this paragraph. Unicast PTP is unlike NTP in every aspect, even multicast PTP is also not like NTP broadcast mode. 
The PTP folks want security for PTP and our proposal delivers that for unicast PTP. Introducing a stateless mode for unicast PTP would certainly something to look at, but why should we do this if my draft protects unicast PTP as-is, without a requirement to change another standard? 

Today there is NTS4NTP and (unsecure) unicast PTP. Our draft tries to re-use the good work that went into the NTS4NTP draft as much as possible while retaining the unicast protocol and its mechanics as much as possible. Why do you think PTP users should switch to a different protocol or modify the protocol they use to a point where it is more or less a complete rewrite? This is a surprising request to make to entire industries and user communities that chose to use PTP as their time sync protocol instead of NTP in the 19 years of its existence. 

Regards,
   Heiko



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