Re: [nvo3] Carrying entropy, was: draft-ietf-nvo3-encap-00 should add considerations of traversing NAPT

worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Fri, 21 July 2017 02:19 UTC

Return-Path: <worley@alum.mit.edu>
X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36941131D25 for <nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.933
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NUKzwg_oTwIE for <nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30E29129AA8 for <nvo3@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.99]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id YNX3dnQs72oclYNXgdpRqb; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:19:48 +0000
Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id YNXfdwwltTnV3YNXgd060j; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:19:48 +0000
Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6L2Jkc2009460; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:19:46 -0400
Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v6L2Jk0G009457; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:19:46 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f
From: worley@ariadne.com
To: Dan Wing <dwing@vmware.com>
Cc: nvo3@ietf.org, touch@isi.edu
In-Reply-To: <5AABFF10-9580-49CA-873A-26A51DCB6B4E@vmware.com> (dwing@vmware.com)
Sender: worley@ariadne.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:19:46 -0400
Message-ID: <874lu6lef1.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJFk6o825VIgfj/RH9GkhfUojUjK69PMTxGs0XbK1exc5I8bsJFy9a0RgGZtx9s+R1QQXRF22ScfCedQTqzVFBBnsv8vDxekYQihqzVHfCt4cJ19lJoa tGVx2N131hhh0y6K6QuXLBpICrCjoiN7+TGJpqezuJqnMHatXxsFiNGjR2jNnrF9zIeYX0wtSpg/+pIHfNfywE9kPNggZZNa3Ok=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/Fnv7fdg-I9YwEBzsoSogso-Yx-U>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] Carrying entropy, was: draft-ietf-nvo3-encap-00 should add considerations of traversing NAPT
X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" <nvo3.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nvo3>, <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nvo3/>
List-Post: <mailto:nvo3@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3>, <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:19:51 -0000

Dan Wing <dwing@vmware.com> writes:
> Using Geneve VNI doesn't take us towards that goal, though.  On a
> simple network, there is only one VNI (one virtual network), and if we
> used solely VNI for underlay ECMP, all tunneled packets would go over
> the same ECMP path.  We want each tunneled TCP flow to take one path,
> and ideally the next tunneled TCP flow taking another ECMP path.

I'm mixing a number of points here.  In order from what I consider most
important to least:

- It would be desirable to have a Geneve option to contain entropy, so
  that in situations where outer headers don't provide a good place for
  entropy, devices don't have to look further than the Geneve header.

- There is an unused octet in the Geneve header.  It might be useful to
  define it to contain entropy for ECMP.  (Unfortunately, it's only one
  byte.(

- ECMP can use as entropy any field which is "flow identification", that
  is, where intermediate devices are allowed to disorder packets which
  have different values of the flow identification field.  In
  particular, any virtual network identifier serves as flow
  identification.  Thus, we can specify in Geneve that any device
  handling packets with Geneve headers can disorder packets with
  different values of the VNI field.  But a consequence of *that* is
  that in situations where the VNI field is not used to communicate
  useful information (presumably the additional options are the reason
  Geneve is being used), the VNI field can be used for entropy.

Dale