Return-Path: X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF361C15154E for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pingidentity.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Mr0OI7Nrlcz for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x329.google.com (mail-ot1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F644C15152B for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x329.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-7180dc76075so1362405a34.3 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pingidentity.com; s=google; t=1729890243; x=1730495043; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CMlNTSzy4BU7s0f49QAnjnhIzytP7+4UD8c5PjOelEk=; b=GwV/3un+ss0TTx/DT1AflIh+H2kd4CVI7PPXNNb0r73cq3g7XBiMThrBiMdOimx/Xi vK6Pso/6tPiCS7GmQc9zc9+m5TOwZxfchgxsUBj9kWVy4anImON1hrj8b8V4zSSg7r4F onPyRAok+wpmEJuHbZfttAnMlSWO9QYySrGf14zXV4g527NNn5FqHXPwVPWKV5sWzHgt KCtlq+2aHsHODkdk13vPVR2cr1jzCEWG+wRAPm5EHLE7zEroQaavOEhDD2q9miWub1tp 44XgQqcj8n7QJSgAMM8V+fNLSJxuF/WhfqgUlAxhi2UF2ru/eT9bp7NQwtnt5w/R/gNz cNPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1729890243; x=1730495043; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=CMlNTSzy4BU7s0f49QAnjnhIzytP7+4UD8c5PjOelEk=; b=WWlJKR3FpUFZ6kWmzO6tUzOQcBLerqfZu3QcV9lCkNNDNlkP8n10ABVG9cIOue8AAr XXXQHNrh1bUYLAxTA+vU/Z+Qh7V5lQe8o1FsZqt4htMhZ0304/hNwdjV6cX/HyIj8lbZ XpFRU/cH67obCv4VJk06Ainr26NrAcaPZZ0gX8H6DGcV0wHtRSaXn+BJDWlPq9eXcAku tTqf0K39ana7BINuyAdZkZqJpoYlIXckuL6eT+2fS6fZ9JOUnNddoG7rz8W1SpLGSWKB 7eWaVDf4IoMJXNHwrmKo+geEvkyaQxMq0eTIh0OlzyNwDC2PJfVxoxPP3/0vasZF+bzn WUkg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUpfkNq4CyeKsLcnriX9Kw8jXToFNGfcAjRiIsITi6qKO38v3ikylK9SERnct83z992jvlaLw==@ietf.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwmL/CCZph/NAq0zVTXpoeNt5KrBfi/QY8oVnkWIQW1vgN2dpcx uf6e9RH+rfLEumK4AyTlFvar1DAJOwjUZZCOZNJG/f9mtc1kOCwSDmV6bfah/ojqyfdfms0O6zp aZCvFi/t6i9K7HDnD5BEM03RFRxcm1QYzwMvDdANvkJkiCP4cjNlYGdDcr9eWUOG5mY9NVp8Sn1 gx4kxVKj+APg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE0i5alA9utFgVWi0u4B8Aw55Un9UNeLJmpCT8azDx6s8a/H/UWHcesEqWD+V6ZsWcAa8ix6Yki1eHK439f6VM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:2a06:b0:717:f864:90cb with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-71867f1c518mr1108984a34.4.1729890243331; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Brian Campbell Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 15:03:37 -0600 Message-ID: To: Travis Spencer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000746e9c0625537548" Message-ID-Hash: RCWDGP74LQ4H4YK7FHGKQG6EDL3YJBZ5 X-Message-ID-Hash: RCWDGP74LQ4H4YK7FHGKQG6EDL3YJBZ5 X-MailFrom: bcampbell@pingidentity.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-oauth.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Warren Parad , oauth X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5BOAUTH-WG=5D_Re=3A_Nit_in_section_4_of_draft_13_of_SD-JWT?= List-Id: OAUTH WG Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000746e9c0625537548 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At this point, I think it=E2=80=99s best to leave questions of comma placem= ent and readability to the discretion of the RFC editor. I clearly lack the authority to officially declare October 25th as ABNF Day, but I=E2=80=99ll honor it as such from now on. I look forward to celeb= rating it (or not) with you in the years to come. On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 2:03=E2=80=AFAM Travis Spencer w= rote: > "for those that celebrate" should be offset by commas on each side, > > https://www.grammarly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-with-inte= rrupters/ > . > The draft is correct in this regard. > > I think many readers, however, will read "celebrate ABNF" (missing the > trailing comma) and get confused because they ended the interrupting > phrase in the wrong place. > > On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 9:22=E2=80=AFAM Warren Parad > wrote: > >> > >> Little attempts at satire, like this one, that poke fun at the > occasional absurdity involved in standards development work help me keep = it > together in the face of the occasional absurdity. > > > > > > I totally agree, I've always found the opportunities to add enjoyment t= o > the consuming of the specs to be appreciated. I will say that I can't > actually decide if the comma belongs or not though. > > > > On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 1:11=E2=80=AFAM Brian Campbell 40pingidentity.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> > >> The phrase "for those who celebrate" there is a subtle attempt at a > little bit of good-natured humor. ChatGPT explains the general phrase > thusly: > >> > >> The phrase "for those who celebrate" is often used to acknowledge that > not everyone may participate in a particular holiday, event, or tradition= . > It's a way of being inclusive and respectful of diverse beliefs, practice= s, > and customs. For example, saying "Happy Holidays to those who celebrate" > recognizes that while some people may be celebrating a specific holiday, > others may not observe it or may celebrate different holidays. > >> > >> The meaning in the context of this document is to playfully acknowledg= e > that some people really like ABNF while others aren't readily familiar wi= th > it and/or don't find it particularly useful. The former are those who > celebrate. The latter are those who do not. The document is inclusive of > all. > >> > >> This lighthearted reference also reflects the journey of how ABNF came > to be included in the document. Seen here: > https://github.com/oauth-wg/oauth-selective-disclosure-jwt/issues/393, > there was initially a suggestion that including ABNF would be helpful for > implementers. Even though this was met with some skepticism about how man= y > people would actually find it useful, it was added to the document anyway= . > >> > >> Of course, if a joke requires explanation, it tends to lose its humor. > Nevertheless, I remain partial to the text. Little attempts at satire, li= ke > this one, that poke fun at the occasional absurdity involved in standards > development work help me keep it together in the face of the occasional > absurdity. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 1:54=E2=80=AFAM Travis Spencer 40curity.io@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Section 4 of draft 13 of the SD-JWT WG document says: > >>> > >>> As an alternative illustration of the SD-JWT format, for those who > celebrate, > >>> ABNF [RFC5234] for the SD-JWT, SD-JWT+KB, and various constituent par= ts > >>> is provided here: > >>> > >>> Who are those who celebrate? Those that celebrate birthdays, > >>> Midsummer, Halloween? I don't understand and think that phrase should > >>> be deleted. > >>> > >>> Suggested alternative: > >>> > >>> As an alternative illustration of the SD-JWT format in ABNF [RFC5234] > for > >>> the SD-JWT, SD-JWT+KB, and various constituent parts is provided here= : > >>> > >>> HTH! > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> OAuth mailing list -- oauth@ietf.org > >>> To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org > >> > >> > >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and > privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any > review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sende= r > immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments fro= m > your computer. Thank you._______________________________________________ > >> OAuth mailing list -- oauth@ietf.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org > --=20 _CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged= =20 material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use,=20 distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.=C2=A0 If you h= ave=20 received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately= =20 by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from your=20 computer. Thank you._ --000000000000746e9c0625537548 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At this point, I think it=E2=80=99s best to leave question= s of comma placement and readability to the discretion of the RFC editor.
I clearly lack the authority to officially declare October 25th as AB= NF Day, but I=E2=80=99ll honor it as such from now on. I look forward to ce= lebrating it (or not) with you in the years to come.

On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at= 2:03=E2=80=AFAM Travis Spencer <tra= vis@curity.io> wrote:
"for those that celebrate" should be offset by comma= s on each side,
https://www.gramma= rly.com/blog/punctuation-capitalization/comma-with-interrupters/.
The draft is correct in this regard.

I think many readers, however, will read "celebrate ABNF" (missin= g the
trailing comma) and get confused because they ended the interrupting
phrase in the wrong place.

On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 9:22=E2=80=AFAM Warren Parad
<wparad=3D40rhosys.ch@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> Little attempts at satire, like this one, that poke fun at the occ= asional absurdity involved in standards development work help me keep it to= gether in the face of the occasional absurdity.
>
>
> I totally agree, I've always found the opportunities to add enjoym= ent to the consuming of the specs to be appreciated. I will say that I can&= #39;t actually decide if the comma belongs or not though.
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 1:11=E2=80=AFAM Brian Campbell <bcampbell= =3D4= 0pingidentity.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> The phrase "for those who celebrate" there is a subtle a= ttempt at a little bit of good-natured humor. ChatGPT explains the general = phrase thusly:
>>
>> The phrase "for those who celebrate" is often used to ac= knowledge that not everyone may participate in a particular holiday, event,= or tradition. It's a way of being inclusive and respectful of diverse = beliefs, practices, and customs. For example, saying "Happy Holidays t= o those who celebrate" recognizes that while some people may be celebr= ating a specific holiday, others may not observe it or may celebrate differ= ent holidays.
>>
>> The meaning in the context of this document is to playfully acknow= ledge that some people really like ABNF while others aren't readily fam= iliar with it and/or don't find it particularly useful. The former are = those who celebrate. The latter are those who do not. The document is inclu= sive of all.
>>
>> This lighthearted reference also reflects the journey of how ABNF = came to be included in the document. Seen here: https://github.com/oauth-wg/oauth-selective-disclosure-jwt= /issues/393, there was initially a suggestion that including ABNF would= be helpful for implementers. Even though this was met with some skepticism= about how many people would actually find it useful, it was added to the d= ocument anyway.
>>
>> Of course, if a joke requires explanation, it tends to lose its hu= mor. Nevertheless, I remain partial to the text. Little attempts at satire,= like this one, that poke fun at the occasional absurdity involved in stand= ards development work help me keep it together in the face of the occasiona= l absurdity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 1:54=E2=80=AFAM Travis Spencer <travis= =3D40curity= .io@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Section 4 of draft 13 of the SD-JWT WG document says:
>>>
>>> As an alternative illustration of the SD-JWT format, for those= who celebrate,
>>> ABNF [RFC5234] for the SD-JWT, SD-JWT+KB, and various constitu= ent parts
>>> is provided here:
>>>
>>> Who are those who celebrate? Those that celebrate birthdays, >>> Midsummer, Halloween? I don't understand and think that ph= rase should
>>> be deleted.
>>>
>>> Suggested alternative:
>>>
>>> As an alternative illustration of the SD-JWT format in ABNF [R= FC5234] for
>>> the SD-JWT, SD-JWT+KB, and various constituent parts is provid= ed here:
>>>
>>> HTH!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OAuth mailing list -- oauth@ietf.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org
>>
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and pr= ivileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review= , use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.=C2=A0 I= f you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender i= mmediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from y= our computer. Thank you._______________________________________________
>> OAuth mailing list -- oauth@ietf.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org

<= span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:= baseline;background:transparent;font-family:proxima-nova-zendesk,system-ui,= -apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Oxygen-Sans,Ub= untu,Cantarell,"Helvetica Neue",Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:600"= >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidenti= al and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). A= ny review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited= .=C2=A0 If you have received this communication in error, please notify the= sender immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachmen= ts from your computer. Thank you. --000000000000746e9c0625537548--