[OAUTH-WG] Re: SD-JWT and Unlinkability

Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com> Sat, 21 September 2024 15:55 UTC

Return-Path: <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BD3C14F6A5 for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rxRrXFEed-wY for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com (mail-yb1-xb32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B58CC14F6A7 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e1a9463037cso2430500276.2 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1726934103; x=1727538903; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kGhmcSGJ5aezWxp1RA6QABTwNSHemdfdyzwToZ83g8Y=; b=d7kBIUJVvFJcGBd1Ef9yAWOqRox/UalA1B5XjgwwsA6J6Nwpb7SzBPRes7Rpi0sF1v tWVBDryF0xwN1UC3h+i+y5k4Asvt7yG9QSf6dpaYl54g6b6h+UMiCnJuVZkBBCyEutMo ZDzvdYeKwtKdzr5GeGWBDZ7wmtBb5Tr1SUSGV9OW0l2cuwZxWVgJXin8/1TYziZHq1lJ RZYswtNcwJE9TarKQ/jYpqMNv+/a4/DiaAPJTeuiev/vgP/OZTJMsqqALJ2C2z982DRK 2H6sz6utRMpknRWTKK1C66a3o+YxZOMgKi36GAurYOJdAyY0CFPzDpcK9RW5tyMjtDy/ x8RA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1726934103; x=1727538903; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=kGhmcSGJ5aezWxp1RA6QABTwNSHemdfdyzwToZ83g8Y=; b=uK5jVzrfh3SMiLBKdS2iTILfySbdi9MhRNOSvg1cUhivs9Nj31cTJT0QGjZFjjLzsc UqJvr1Iqn6NbGyjitTHyZjdZTt1E5PE1l6gq7ApIoa0P5NHzUu3FoeiJfoZDnWwg+Lyh q0w3K7+QlWsDFodhfbLleyU8ArSc+ifrMMDKFX66FcD8CiGIt0eCpb9cl/yseIjYokBZ xjN1lAFrvJfLaEXdsNrxDOyl5Kebs5IogwO9brJQtfVC0V6eZzRRLfDbXa3obqYRPyTJ egfDGDq9sSPgj7Eun5ge/5TFKA9FkMSGeh2KmYmYgXoPNa63agk3S/yc84vFiKAgtmX/ 2CZg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxRNoam5NGStxv19OxMeyMVzay7CqeFmkjoQMoXzvNNTbUMRKRt kmOF4yXPkYw9GAuJwcN228giBv+G3NZYpAe5DVLEVMMR9PKoHnNnyJHWGInOcmOFAYe+C6KUaiX VzsyTEi4FarOP09b85o70WAO8XQ4=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGP1+YcExpAf6kfjCSrNt4B1iHuIo11OA+qY4oA1Ed61oxYBAflvaGC2pf3o/W7R/6prhhIUlyiIpY/U3TrWhk=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:cc2:b0:e0b:1191:3cb3 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e2250c9e84fmr4801228276.38.1726934103490; Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAD9ie-s_gFmkCC8uKXQXC0W1u_zcaktvvNV6wEC4RtJQMarnng@mail.gmail.com> <51d9e2b2-e766-4eea-8b31-a0ae5b2cfae4@danielfett.de>
In-Reply-To: <51d9e2b2-e766-4eea-8b31-a0ae5b2cfae4@danielfett.de>
From: Dick Hardt <dick.hardt@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 17:54:26 +0200
Message-ID: <CAD9ie-sLcUPPdj4Y0KEeq7C_Nb1ah1GiUbz1sOZEyDPyFbGSZw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Fett <mail@danielfett.de>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca0e4a0622a32db6"
Message-ID-Hash: YIHKBMGBGOV5RRB7YY4BTRJ4ZRHOZ56T
X-Message-ID-Hash: YIHKBMGBGOV5RRB7YY4BTRJ4ZRHOZ56T
X-MailFrom: dick.hardt@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-oauth.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: oauth@ietf.org, kristina@sfc.keio.ac.jp
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Dick.Hardt@gmail.com
Subject: [OAUTH-WG] Re: SD-JWT and Unlinkability
List-Id: OAUTH WG <oauth.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/7y-fdVqxSwqZLwCe9aE33gKxh2U>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/oauth>
List-Help: <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:oauth-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:oauth-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:oauth-leave@ietf.org>

I understand it has become the accepted approach. It still comes across as
a hack, and there is no guidance on how many to issue, nor how a holder
chooses when to reissue the same ones.

I'm amused by the decision to use implicit typing in a disclosure to save a
few bytes, but we will send dozens of credentials to minimize the chance of
linking :)

On Sat, Sep 21, 2024 at 4:29 PM Daniel Fett <mail@danielfett.de> wrote:

> Hi Dick,
>
> Batch credential (not claims) issuing has become the default approach to
> circumvent the inherent limitations of salted-hash-based credentials
> formats. This was neither invented by us, nor is it unreasonable to ask
> implementers to do it. Protocols such as OpenID4VCI support it.
>
> -Daniel
> Am 21.09.24 um 06:42 schrieb Dick Hardt:
>
> Is it really going to be practical to batch issue claims, and have the
> holder randomly choose between them on presentation?
>
> As an implementer, what is the right number of claims to be in a batch?
>
> This section of the draft reads as a hack to add a new capability
> (unlinkability) to a mechanism that did not have that as a design objective.
>
> This is going to be like the "alg":"null" for SD-JWT. :-)
>
>
>