Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF

Replying to Rifaat's e-mail but not replying to him specifically.

Hi folks,

I don't think the question of whether OAuth is a good or bad WG group is
really a productive one in general, and it's especially hard for me to see
how it's going to let us make progress on questions of DEI. This seems like
precisely the kind of thing that's going to lead to a bunch of hard
feelings without making progress. I think we can all agree that the IETF
culture isn't perfect and that there are cases where we make it hard for
new people to get involved, so maybe we could focus instead on those
aspects of our culture.

I would suggest that if people have problems with the way the OAuth WG is
being run they ought to take it up with the AD (Roman Danyliw), or, failing
that, on the IETF list.

-Ekr

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:12 PM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef <rifaat.s.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 4:57 PM Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On 24 Feb 2021, at 2:20 am, Kathleen Moriarty <
>> kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>> > And way back when I was AD, OAuth was by far the most productive
>> working group I managed.  They put out what felt like about 3 documents a
>> meeting for full publication.  I was the AD for 3 years, ending in 2017
>> when EKR became an AD.
>> >
>> > There was a bit of management as a result of the number of experts and
>> varying use cases for their environments, but even with that, OAuth was
>> very productive.  Since your document was 2016, I was likely the AD.  Yes,
>> the meetings had challenges at times, but we worked through it and things
>> got done.
>>
>> Measuring productivity through the number of documents published is not a
>> good habit for us to get into;
>
>
> The number of documents published was in response to a comment that
> "nothing would get done" at the OAuth WG. Which is clearly not true.
>
>
>> it gives incentive to all of the wrong kinds of behaviours.
>
>
> Can you elaborate on these wrong behaviours?
>
> Regards,
>  Rifaat
>
>
>> Having some success metrics for our work has come up in the IAB a few
>> times, but we haven't made much progress.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>>
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>
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>