Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request (JAR) vs OIDC request object
Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> Wed, 18 December 2019 07:14 UTC
Return-Path: <sakimura@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DF71208DC for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:14:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.988
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vDdO5HFq44QZ for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:14:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6C081208D7 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:14:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id d16so1023951wre.10 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:14:34 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6i60Igu3smJF0O+sDtr1vdbcP4XgD4T2rtcNMkRgsC8=; b=ra+1DB5HU0IdnMdQ5jk15A7JDfZ+6Ko5JDNYEiQgbCqqw5OIZHAfG7iPawC4Irt3Ro 3HrDhNU1WJ7MU9BA03YgJLfEf3GrVtiKTgTbPcRxY0X2CsgN5agLiIZ8I5xThxveh9hq 89tP/TQEqE09JGwwe4ERR/cCl8rmFz3yg/I5H+uzbqNdDLcBlAppaCneG8SeXcaNVvWv SHuoFWo6K6Y5ZK45PC6lmd+41xmJrHDUZ8nOXyu+XrDdawNVeEKEfuu042QA2jkCIym1 n0Xyf6tIT2mH1Iknrvda+e/K/ShjVccPC2etjm6sHCylMTqb52XcjrgCgVfR6QgEnGPh xnWQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6i60Igu3smJF0O+sDtr1vdbcP4XgD4T2rtcNMkRgsC8=; b=pOdH8BGgnVormciYrZP7ash+THjh8meenNjbpv32udX13I/dL8gOAyWlqyRtG1DiaI wthcNyrYIw2ld3IXjzowJ5MLRXtF8bVYGkMo9IzRUKfg10ZtiOybunlzh5UI0kqMTI3S 19Tk/BM1rXksNm75b3FZ1syZN6LiEjYqaerP/25siocKySUmbtrwFdMPqbTljAMDZXGU 2msCd0R2g0dyvPr6xhwM+TD1W0b3rrTClyqzwXWj6/Q6wBoiE0rGlqTsaAXw+sbURmsA uZv+MeFP1FKXPig1LKBAmWFl2Ln6sizqqVm4VL1kGMQ5patRl1fV9pfRDOkaQyBsd1A8 U8eQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVcgqwWkoZwlXevDjRCGsqo5UocYJSvjRpw33b0lwXeG6xjh7k8 B6LbgbeTKX6gaOvvB41KyBqYp9OdZVMeCEmlDs0=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw49WEWhFuylU1SF56DoFgp9fjbC2H98JwEdPMRlyb1Ng65ij5LLUAt5mUd0gjdesP/e2N02dUZETyJO4uNuWs=
X-Received: by 2002:adf:8297:: with SMTP id 23mr850118wrc.379.1576653272874; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:14:32 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CALAqi_-Ku6Hh3DQDXGR+83Q8jofMzVBcW=7GUnFFzsoG+Ka_1g@mail.gmail.com> <CA+k3eCRRW9oLfdmBXsccc_BVd-Ne8qOR5A4HftpSMkMt2JZLRg@mail.gmail.com> <CALAqi_9s+jXDwfb-HK+sguijR6=R6cPgJMwXhSkU52YQcEkX2A@mail.gmail.com> <CA+k3eCQZdX_DTDzcVaDJ=xaKSa0msjJh2UQvA+ZvhTeEBkTDkw@mail.gmail.com> <CABzCy2BVoutsLiwTDxpOKxOOtiNv59-TKAq=V9498m4OT=79+w@mail.gmail.com> <CAANoGhJnHnrN2aMtgpyTs02bA8v7d5a_M5PgSVcUx1xxHo4CmA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAANoGhJnHnrN2aMtgpyTs02bA8v7d5a_M5PgSVcUx1xxHo4CmA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:14:23 +0900
Message-ID: <CABzCy2DM7OwUfOiYK2P6vWttpZm+Y=EWf_NwCvih==gSfXA=dw@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
Cc: Brian Campbell <bcampbell=40pingidentity.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, oauth <oauth@ietf.org>, Nat Sakimura <nat.sakimura@oidf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004384520599f5326b"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/CXvYd5S3zouixbGUGuXpWZQLNGQ>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request (JAR) vs OIDC request object
X-BeenThere: oauth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: OAUTH WG <oauth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/oauth/>
List-Post: <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 07:14:38 -0000
So, no change is OK? On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:01 PM John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote: > I also slightly prefer the merge approach. > > There are plusses and minuses to both. > > Changing again now that it is past ISEG review and backing out a Discuss > will add another three to six months at this point, if we can get them to > agree to the change. > > John B. > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 11:29 PM Nat Sakimura <sakimura@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Correct. The WG supported the precedence approach and even merge just >> like OIDC as it is very useful from the implementation point of view and >> helps with a bunch of deployment patter. >> >> The push back came in from the Ben Campbell’s DISCUSS. >> See >> >> https://bitbucket.org/Nat/oauth-jwsreq/issues/70/bc-the-current-text-actually-specifies-the >> >> I am willing to go either way as long as people agree. My slight >> preference is to the original approach. >> >> Best, >> >> Nat Sakimura >> >> 2019年8月29日(木) 6:56 Brian Campbell <bcampbell= >> 40pingidentity..com@dmarc.ietf.org <40pingidentity.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>: >> >>> FWIW, as best I can remember the change in question came as I result of directorate/IESG >>> review rather than a WG decision/discussion. Which is likely why you can't >>> find the "why" anywhere in the mailing list archive. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 3:23 PM Filip Skokan <panva.ip@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Well it kind of blows, doesn't it? I wasn't able to find the "why" >>>> anywhere in the mailing list archive around the time this was changed. >>>> >>>> My take on satisfying both worlds looks like this >>>> >>>> - allow just JAR - no other params when possible. >>>> (which btw isn't possible to do with request_uri when enforcing >>>> client based uri whitelist and the jwsreq 5.2.2 shows as much) >>>> - enforce the "dupe behaviours" defined in OIDC (if response_type or >>>> client_id is in request object it must either be missing or the same in >>>> regular request). >>>> - allows merging request object and regular parameters with request >>>> object taking precedence since it is a very useful feature when having >>>> pre-signed request object that's not one time use and clients using it wish >>>> to vary state/nonce per-request. >>>> >>>> I wish the group reconsidered making this breaking change from OIDC's >>>> take on request objects - allow combination of parameters from the request >>>> object with ones from regular parameters (if not present in request object). >>>> >>>> S pozdravem, >>>> *Filip Skokan* >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 at 23:02, Brian Campbell < >>>> bcampbell@pingidentity.com> wrote: >>>> >>> Filip, for better or worse, I believe your assessment of the situation >>>>> is correct. I know of one AS that didn't choose which of the two to follow >>>>> but rather implemented a bit of a hybrid where it basically ignores >>>>> everything outside of the request object per JAR but also checks for and >>>>> enforces the presence and value of the few regular parameters (client_id, >>>>> response_type) that OIDC mandates. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 5:47 AM Filip Skokan <panva.ip@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> in an earlier thread I've posed the following question that might >>>>>> have gotten missed, this might have consequences for the existing >>>>>> implementations of Request Objects in OIDC implementations - its making >>>>>> pure JAR requests incompatible with OIDC Core implementations. >>>>>> >>>>>> draft 14 of jwsreq (JAR) introduced this language >>>>>> >>>>>> The client MAY send the parameters included in the request object >>>>>>> duplicated in the query parameters as well for the backward >>>>>>> compatibility etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *However, the authorization server supporting thisspecification MUST >>>>>>> only use the parameters included in the requestobject. * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Server MUST only use the parameters in the Request Object even if the >>>>>>> same parameter is provided in the query parameter. The Authorization >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The client MAY send the parameters included in the request object >>>>>>> duplicated in the query parameters as well for the backward >>>>>>> compatibility etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *However, the authorization server supporting thisspecification MUST >>>>>>> only use the parameters included in the requestobject. * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Nat, John, everyone - *does this mean a JAR compliant AS ignores >>>>>> everything outside of the request object while OIDC Request Object one >>>>>> merges the two with the ones in the request object being used over ones >>>>>> that are sent in clear?* The OIDC language also includes sections >>>>>> which make sure that some required arguments are still passed outside of >>>>>> the request object with the same value to make sure the request is "valid" >>>>>> OAuth 2.0 request (client_id, response_type), something which an example in >>>>>> the JAR spec does not do. Not having this language means that existing >>>>>> authorization request pipelines can't simply be extended with e.g. a >>>>>> middleware, they need to branch their codepaths. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is an AS required to choose which of the two it follows? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for clarifying this in advance. I think if either the >>>>>> behaviour is the same as in OIDC or different this should be called out in >>>>>> the language to avoid confusion, especially since this already exists in >>>>>> OIDC and likely isn't going to be read in isolation, especially because the >>>>>> Request Object is even called out to be already in place in OIDC in the JAR >>>>>> draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> *Filip* >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> OAuth mailing list >>>>>> OAuth@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and >>>>> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any >>>>> review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. >>>>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender >>>>> immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from >>>>> your computer. Thank you.* >>>> >>>> >>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and >>> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any >>> review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.. >>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender >>> immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from >>> your computer. Thank you.* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OAuth mailing list >>> OAuth@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >>> >> -- >> Nat Sakimura (=nat) >> Chairman, OpenID Foundation >> http://nat.sakimura.org/ >> @_nat_en >> _______________________________________________ >> OAuth mailing list >> OAuth@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >> > -- Nat Sakimura (=nat) Chairman, OpenID Foundation http://nat.sakimura.org/ @_nat_en
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … John Bradley
- [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request (JAR… Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Dominick Baier
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … n-sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Torsten Lodderstedt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Takahiko Kawasaki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Dominick Baier
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Joseph Heenan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Richard Backman, Annabelle
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Jim Manico
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Richard Backman, Annabelle
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Joseph Heenan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Authori… Neil Madden
- [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Author… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Au… Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Joseph Heenan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Fwd: [EXTERNAL] Re: JWT Secured Au… Filip Skokan
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … George Fletcher
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Nat Sakimura
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Vladimir Dzhuvinov
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Secured Authorization Request … Rob Otto