Re: [OAUTH-WG] Client Instances of An Application - Was: Re: Last call review of draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-10

George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com> Tue, 04 June 2013 18:29 UTC

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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:56:32 -0400
From: George Fletcher <gffletch@aol.com>
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To: Justin Richer <jricher@mitre.org>
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Cc: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, "oauth@ietf.org WG" <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Client Instances of An Application - Was: Re: Last call review of draft-ietf-oauth-dyn-reg-10
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+1 for leaving dyn reg as is and working on a profile that enables this 
more domain specific scenario. I agree with Phil and Justine that it's 
important... I just don't think it should be put in the core dyn reg spec.

Thanks,
George

On 6/4/13 12:45 PM, Justin Richer wrote:
> I agree with the goal of standardizing on identifying software 
> instances, but I think it's out of scope to do so inside of dynamic 
> registration when most dynamic registration use cases don't need it 
> and won't use it. I think that you've got to define discovery, 
> assertion contents, and a few other things in order to make it work 
> and interoperable across different services. Do we really want to 
> define assertion formats and server/client discovery and processing 
> rules inside of dynamic registration? I really don't think that's 
> beneficial, either to dynamic registration itself or to the problem 
> that the software instance tracking is trying to solve.
>
> If this gets proposed as a separate document, I will support it and I 
> will help work on it. Heck, I'll even help edit the thing (or things) 
> if people want. But I strongly believe that it's a separate concern 
> from dynamic client registration, and I think it needs to have its own 
> proper discussion apart from that.
>
>  -- Justin
>
> On 06/04/2013 02:28 AM, Phil Hunt wrote:
>> Yes. However the contents and format are out of scope.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On 2013-06-03, at 22:32, Torsten Lodderstedt <torsten@lodderstedt.net 
>> <mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>
>>> isn't the initial registration token such a credential, which allows 
>>> to co-relate different instances of the same software?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Torsten.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com <mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>> schrieb:
>>>
>>>     Finally i believe the bb+ doesn't have the issue because they are solving with an initial authn credential that contains the same info.
>>>
>>>     My feeling is that this functionality needs to be standardized one way or another.
>>>
>>>     Phil
>>>
>>>     On 2013-06-03, at 19:16, Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com  <mailto:derek@ihtfp.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Phil, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com
>>>         <mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com>> writes:
>>>
>>>             Not quite. I will call you. I am saying we are
>>>             transitioning from the old public client model. The new
>>>             model proposes quasi-confidential characteristics but in
>>>             some respects is missing key information from the public
>>>             m! odel. Namely that a group of clients are related and
>>>             there have common behaviour and security
>>>             characteristics. We need to add to the self-asserted
>>>             model an assertion equiv to the old common client_id.
>>>             That is all. I am NOT looking for a proof of application
>>>             identity here. That is too far. But certainly what we
>>>             define here can open that door. Phil
>>>
>>>         I think I understand what you're saying here. In the "old
>>>         way", a public client had a constant client_id amongst all
>>>         instances of that public client, whereas in the "new way", a
>>>         public client will have different client_ids amongst all
>>>         instances of that client. You feel this is a loss, whereas
>>>         it seems most people seem to feel this change is okay. Since
>>>         you are effectively the lone dissenter on this one topic,
>>>         let me ask you a question: What is a technical reason that
>>>         you need to have a constant, assertion that would bind to!
>>>         gether (in a non-authenticated way) multiple instances of a
>>>         client? I believe that Justin has provides some attacks
>>>         against this; so I'm trying to understand, (with my chair
>>>         hat on), why you need this functionality? With my
>>>         security-mafia hat on, I feel like the old way was bad, and
>>>         I much prefer the newer way where each instance of a client
>>>         gets its own ID and a locally-stored secret. -derek -- Derek
>>>         Atkins 617-623-3745 derek@ihtfp.com <mailto:derek@ihtfp.com>
>>>         www.ihtfp.com <http://www.ihtfp.com> Computer and Internet
>>>         Security Consultant 
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     OAuth mailing list
>>>     OAuth@ietf.org  <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
>>>
>>
>>
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