Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-sub-ns-02
Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> Thu, 21 June 2012 18:48 UTC
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From: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:48:22 +0300
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To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-sub-ns-02
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Hi Barry, On Jun 21, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Barry Leiba wrote: >>> (1) Why Informational? Everything else at that level seems to >>> be specified in a standards track or BCP level RFC, and IETF >>> Consensus is required. [1] I think you have to do this as >>> standards track. Did I miss something? >>> >> Standards Track is OK. > > Stephen: > Yeah, I'm not sure Standards Track is needed. Other than "Other > documents like it are Standards Track," explain why Informational > doesn't work. Is there some procedural reason that these IANA actions > can't be done with an Informational document? Is there any > expectation that this will be reviewed and modified and progress along > any sort of track at all? Certainly, this doesn't define any sort of > "standard" that I can see. > > Informational documents in the IETF Stream *do* have "IETF Consensus". On our status call on Monday you explained me that both types of documents have IETF last calls these days. Hence, I wonder whether there is any practical difference? > >>> (2) Do you *really* want RFC or specification required for all >>> registrations? I don't care, but there is a trend away from >>> that at the moment since its been found to discourage >>> registrations in a lot of cases. Perhaps expert review would >>> be ok? No trying to push you one way or the other, I just >>> wanted to check. > ... >> If the goal is to get this document inline with what our existing documents say >> then 'Specification Required' would be the right policy here as well. > > Hannes: > I'm going to really push hard on this point: the goal is *NOT* to make > all the registration policies the same, and I will resist that > strongly. The *goal* is to use for each registry a registration > policy that makes sense for *that* registry. That means that you > (well, someone) need to tell me why *this* registry needs the > strictness that you pick for it. What will the harm be in leaving it > to Expert Review, and letting the designated expert decide how much > documentation to require? And remember, you can document guidelines > for the designated expert. For that matter, what will the *harm* be > in simply letting it be First Come First Served? > > We have far too many too-strict registration policies in effect, and > they often come back and bite on the ass the very people who picked > the policies. I made a mistake here and responded too quickly. I will respond to that issue in my mail to Mike since it very much relates to an issue he raised. > >> So, I am curious where to hit the right level of process here to find the sweetspot >> between low overhead and high quality specifications. > > You also need to consider whether poorly documented and unused > extensions really cause any *harm*. If some bozo writes a bad spec > for a stupid idea, and no one implements it because the spec is bad > and the idea is stupid, so what? On the other hand, if some big > company decides it's too much trouble to follow IETF procedures and > chooses not to register their extension, but everyone winds up using > it because they're big and it's necessary, what was the point of > making the registration hard? > > That's the real balance we have to look at. > > Barry Ciao Hannes
- [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-sub-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… John Bradley
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Mike Jones
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Eran Hammer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] AD review of draft-ietf-oauth-urn-… Brian Campbell