Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Token on-behalf of Use case

John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> Mon, 06 July 2015 15:12 UTC

Return-Path: <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251801A89FF for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IQwSS5HX5j-4 for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-f181.google.com (mail-qk0-f181.google.com [209.85.220.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53CCB1A8A63 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qkbp125 with SMTP id p125so119073464qkb.2 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=z/kSgUIgwCpkeJ3zb44i6r7bDNLGlGCgwJAeXyEcSJM=; b=ejTxhcop2bRtlACVMX4pn1O6KaDU+H0M+7mPdDKtXYpJNpGMP4AncntbdGqJpuB7EZ +Sq3nPamF7IUprvCR8nM83f41MHj3Y6WvHkAKkgx5RqMIcKZTqJJYdXXVfMRD5NBpwwS KxItdh9bVXTCo1zPuX+r6vP/XuLtk+QbtEXPXzGG6G4tWfJCYE74yD36bRmHvaKELGyQ wXRCKmLmAbnejKzjAn+p4xoqKlrzvIiCkajZF6qRgl2Vc8jhqFTg+imIQYjkDfP3BAQ/ G7EGNHXvNvWGgNUJ4LST+RKOVix1Iv3+/8PfBikIsbPoy1MF5ZV0bcM0zvSWIK7lf5UC ptJg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnIa8bh756p5ag3fVeax5iqPqSHTwcOrOYY4vBNUmkZ9C4NTLPa+wleAcAH5FXak96WIRgD
X-Received: by 10.140.150.78 with SMTP id 75mr56739130qhw.10.1436195575609; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.216] (186-106-155-84.baf.movistar.cl. [186.106.155.84]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b77sm9400700qkb.8.2015.07.06.08.12.47 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\))
From: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+k3eCTJsLqn88K4qEYJUzoxwAH4boWGsvJZtZi8guvV6C6zSA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 12:12:34 -0300
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <DEAFAD4A-36F8-47D7-813D-35948CDCEA2C@ve7jtb.com>
References: <6B22D19DBF96664DBF49BC7B326402B42739A904@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <BY2PR03MB442205D40E8F1ECD88082F2F5AE0@BY2PR03MB442.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <55928DB3.7090300@gmail.com> <5593C270.7000008@gmail.com> <5593DA7D.80401@mit.edu> <5593E5FD.3050403@gmail.com> <CA+k3eCTA+HmwnMBUBzD7FKYWL37BMA7az_2BE+vnqqpO3=2utw@mail.gmail.com> <559A676F.3070008@gmail.com> <CA+k3eCTJsLqn88K4qEYJUzoxwAH4boWGsvJZtZi8guvV6C6zSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2102)
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/lKI2Ro_sLPcX4aWU9U4mP_jAtPo>
Cc: oauth <oauth@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] JWT Token on-behalf of Use case
X-BeenThere: oauth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: OAUTH WG <oauth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/oauth/>
List-Post: <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:12:59 -0000

Yes unfortunately we haven’t made any progress on this since accepting Mike’s first draft.
 
His proposal is basically for a new endpoint while Brian tired to fit it into the existing token endpoint.

I think draft-ietf-oauth-token-exchange-01 still has OnBehalfOf and ActAs reversed compared to WS-Trust 1.4.
see https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee748487.aspx for the short explanation.

I think Brian is closer in explaining it.

In fairness because WS-Trust originally only had On-Behalf-Of the naming and what people put in tokens is a bit muddled in many implementations.
I think many times it is how WIF implemented it that people copied.

It may be better to have new terms that are clear such as impersonation and composite.

The WG needs to decide if this is going to be an entirely new endpoint, free of the Token endpoint semantics.   There are plusses and minuses to both options.

Also while it is nice to be pure and talk about abstract security tokens, it would be good to give some guidance on what a composite security token would look like for interoperability.

There are also issues around how this would work with proof of possession security tokens, both as input and output.

Perhaps we can make some progress on this in Prague.

John B.



 
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Sergey, 
> 
> The goal of draft-campbell-oauth-sts was to be consistent with OAuth 2.0 and thus hopefully familiar to developers and easy to understand and implement (especially from the client side). It's also intended to be flexible in order to accommodate a variety of use-cases including the chaining type cases that Justin's draft covers. 
> 
> Specifying a security_token_type of the returned token is just a way of providing more info to the client about the token (i.e. is this a JWT or a SAML token or something else) via a URI. It's not always needed but in STS style cases the tokens are not always opaque to the client and the parameter just provides info about the returned token.  
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Sergey Beryozkin <sberyozkin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Brian
> 
> I've read the text, I like it is still pure OAuth2, with few extra parameters added to the access token request, and a key response property being 'access_token' as opposed to 'security_access_token' as in the draft-ietf-oauth-token-exchange-01.
> It appears draft-campbell-oauth-sts-01 can cover a draft-richer-oauth-chain-00 case with the on_behalf_of (and/or act_as ?) property being an original client token but not 100% sure given draft-richer-oauth-chain-00 covers a specific case.
> 
> One thing I'm not sure about is what is the purpose of specifying a security_token_type of the returned access token
> 
> Thanks, Sergey
> 
> On 01/07/15 15:59, Brian Campbell wrote:
> One problem, I think, with token exchange is that it can be really
> simple (token in and token out) and really complicated (client X wants a
> token that says user A is doing something on behalf of user B) at the
> same time.
> 
> I put forth https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-campbell-oauth-sts-01 in
> an attempt to simplify things and express what I envisioned as an OAuth
> based token exchange framework. Though it likely only muddied the waters :)
> 
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Sergey Beryozkin <sberyozkin@gmail.com
> <mailto:sberyozkin@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Justin
> 
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richer-oauth-chain-00 is much
>     easier to read, that I can tell for sure, at least it is obvious why
>     a given entity (RS1) may want to exchange the current token provided
>     by a client for a new token. Definitely easily implementable...
> 
>     One thing I'm not sure in the draft-richer-oauth-chain-00 about is
>     on behalf of whose entity RS1 will be acting once it starts
>     accessing RS2, On Behalf Of RO, or may be On Behalf Of (RO +
>     Client), or may be it is On Behalf Of RO + Act As Client ? The last
>     one seems most logical to me...
> 
>     Thanks, Sergey
> 
> 
>     On 01/07/15 13:18, Justin Richer wrote:
> 
>         As it's written right now, it's a translation of some WS-*
>         concepts into
>         JWT format. It's not really OAuth-y (since the client has to
>         understand
>         the token format along with everyone else, and according to the
>         authors
>         the artifacts might not even be "OAuth tokens"), and that's my main
>         issue with the document. Years ago, I proposed an OAuth-based
>         token swap
>         mechanism:
> 
>         https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richer-oauth-chain-00
> 
>         This works without defining semantics of the tokens themselves, just
>         like the rest of OAuth. I've proposed to the authors of the current
>         draft that it should incorporate both semantic (using JWT) and
>         syntactic
>         (using a simple token-agnostic grant) token swap mechanisms, and
>         that
>         the two could be easily compatible.
> 
>            -- Justin
> 
>         On 7/1/2015 6:35 AM, Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
> 
>             Hmm... perhaps the clue is in the draft title,
>             token-exchange, so may
>             be it is a case of the given access token ("on_behalf_of" or
>             "act_as"
>             claim) being used to request a new security token. One can
>             only guess
>             though, does not seem like the authors are keen to answer
>             the newbie
>             questions...
> 
>             Cheers, Sergey
> 
> 
>             On 30/06/15 13:38, Sergey Beryozkin wrote:
> 
>                 Hi,
>                 Can you please explain what is the difference between
>                 On-Behalf-Of
>                 semantics described in the
>                 draft-ietf-oauth-token-exchange-01 and the
>                 implicit On-Behalf-Of semantics a client OAuth2 token
>                 possesses ?
> 
>                 For example, draft-ietf-oauth-token-exchange-01 mentions:
> 
>                 "Whereas, with on-behalf-of semantics, principal A still
>                 has its own
>                 identity separate from B and it is explicitly understood
>                 that while B
>                 may have delegated its rights to A, any actions taken
>                 are being taken by
>                 A and not B. In a sense, A is an agent for B."
> 
>                 This is a typical case with the authorization code flow
>                 where a client
>                 application acts on-behalf-of the user who authorized
>                 this application ?
> 
>                 Sorry if I'm missing something
> 
>                 Cheers, Sergey
>                 On 25/06/15 22:28, Mike Jones wrote:
> 
>                     That’s what
>                     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-token-exchange-01
>                     is
>                     about.
> 
>                     Cheers,
> 
>                     -- Mike
> 
>                     *From:*OAuth [mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org
>                     <mailto:oauth-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Vivek
>                     Biswas
>                     -T (vibiswas - XORIANT CORPORATION at Cisco)
>                     *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2015 2:20 PM
>                     *To:* OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>                     *Subject:* [OAUTH-WG] JWT Token on-behalf of Use case
> 
>                     Hi All,
> 
>                         I am looking to solve a use-case similar to
>                     WS-Security On-Behalf-Of
>                     <http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-sx/ws-trust/v1.4/errata01/os/ws-trust-1.4-errata01-os-complete.html#_Toc325658980>
> 
> 
>                     with OAuth JWT Token.
> 
>                         Is there a standard claim which we can define
>                     within the OAuth JWT
>                     which denote the On-behalf-of User.
> 
>                     For e.g., a Customer Representative trying to create
>                     token on behalf of
>                     a customer and trying to execute services specific
>                     for that specific
>                     customer.
> 
>                     Regards,
> 
>                     Vivek Biswas,
>                     CISSP
> 
>                     *Cisco Systems, Inc <http://www.cisco.com/>*
> 
>                     *Bldg. J, San Jose, USA,*
> 
>                     *Phone: +1 408 527 9176 <tel:%2B1%20408%20527%209176>*
> 
> 
> 
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     OAuth mailing list
>                     OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>                     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> 
> 
> 
>             _______________________________________________
>             OAuth mailing list
>             OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> 
> 
>         _______________________________________________
>         OAuth mailing list
>         OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     OAuth mailing list
>     OAuth@ietf.org <mailto:OAuth@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OAuth mailing list
> OAuth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth