Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating OAuth, oops
Warren Parad <wparad@rhosys.ch> Wed, 24 February 2021 10:22 UTC
Return-Path: <wparad@rhosys.ch>
X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8BA3A1357 for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:22:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.087
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rhosys.ch
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swYv-z5p-UbF for <oauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD8A3A1354 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id y202so1480745iof.1 for <oauth@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:22:42 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rhosys.ch; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jlSVohIT1CVrh28tKruwY+uwuC4tra7URgAfHv+3ohE=; b=Kbk4gDcn9EqEBvOUz3+kai5OMvKYaV9ChgeWPHq8P2GHIHlodN0v/0aAJgc8kuXCh2 rgaDrDEHonD2eg7BUhKTGd7sse4gNoy7GarKmxpsrs36EU6JPS3wv/N8+fn6BpzBily6 mww9OWdnukaAP+/05Fmf1Zgs3niyP5XRakyqV6tLe6P3pllIQNDYiQHYsN7Xq/h6smqE TBvcMrNIGQHHo4kmXjhXxyX6MlIqtLCMdnZxa6+M5yp9x4jBQyL91mQPF8DxnXb2ROcB xR+aww0HnO/rCM8XHZNCUQyU5LeJIZ4WwyHaIh85ve7kzSJ8fea7YwjASnbN0uPIp6dY 8gCg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jlSVohIT1CVrh28tKruwY+uwuC4tra7URgAfHv+3ohE=; b=Wpjk0NN2MqEuu66DIweZT6nwd9atvLMBgi3iLlZohmhhqoGFbxqcg77l7Q732cs1K9 rEbpH67zcLNDwYoLNyvmHVdMFrrdbVSHoea+IawgeIYuCdPOlC4rLk9wBdULkt/9RLwW xiOQHMoxyXQllfIYA7suzJjia9sQcGzRZkLiqVih7NqHoRR4kUIk2nLpSB46+oU67H4n U1kwYTwLwfa9N0KR8U1SkaTQ/DG1aFaDJgGveieUt5YCK35ZXtZXzilhO9c2vIeHOF4D dRGInsFXyyP2WO3k/LlsG5pO4SeaIfEtXC0h6Zs0Rp8cuQeNlBnUUn/JpqYH0dBjmJOI v0sg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533jP5K3mow0jjHTi+qMHMUtxmq1QcDkyfJwQLqCAmXBitCRq4vt YXpUC8sjrsXXmQMz4QKnCslmop/XjZfFRLh+kjLz
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmGlzUSWYrXzwpLYDUxRzOb63QyVJanoV4WrgNhmWsC5tkfazSGZHN6LPgQ8tMUpZtqaZLh/vgoL2WG2nNwYI=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8249:: with SMTP id n9mr23988104ioo.31.1614162162240; Wed, 24 Feb 2021 02:22:42 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMm+LwgbK3HYDjSHnTN3f6hWSQCQrEjHLNn6z0JpfY7hdxaQpg@mail.gmail.com> <A8128346-B557-472F-B94F-8F624F955FCE@manicode.com> <eb2eaaa7-7f7e-4170-ab87-1cc1fdd3359b@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <eb2eaaa7-7f7e-4170-ab87-1cc1fdd3359b@www.fastmail.com>
From: Warren Parad <wparad@rhosys.ch>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:22:31 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJot-L0PS_3LxEkC-jd1aqXDdYF+z8BajSs4Rhx3LgRPn6wkdQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
Cc: Jim Manico <jim@manicode.com>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, ietf@ietf.org, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a631605bc126a5f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/oDgWDgRTRy83GNBV037OgyjQlEY>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating OAuth, oops
X-BeenThere: oauth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: OAUTH WG <oauth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/oauth/>
List-Post: <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:22:46 -0000
Should we solve the NxM problem, and if so, how do you propose we do that? Warren Parad Founder, CTO Secure your user data with IAM authorization as a service. Implement Authress <https://authress.io/>. On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 8:08 AM Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, at 17:26, Jim Manico wrote: > > I think it’s important to point out that OAuth is not an authentication > protocol. It’s for delegation. OAuth is one of the most mis-used protocols > on the modern web. If you really want to support end users, a good place to > start is to make it clear to developers what OAuth is really for so secure > solutions are built as opposed to the dumpster fire that OAuth solutions > have become today. > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does > > Which suggests that if the OAuth solutions deployed today are dumpster > fires, then ... well, that's what OAuth 2 does. > > My biggest problem with OAuth as an outsider is that it doesn't solve the > NxM problem. You can't build a client which can OAuth against any > arbitrary OAuth service that provides a standard protocol, because you need > to get an API key for your particular application from each service > provider. This just doesn't scale, which is a large part of Phillip's > complaint as well. > > Of course, I came into the IETF having already read > https://web.archive.org/web/20120731155632/http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-hell/ > - which was one of the things which made me wary of the IETF in the first > place, and keen to not let everything I touched get over-complicated. > > Bron. > > -- > Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd > brong@fastmailteam.com > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list > OAuth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth >
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing an Au… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Roman Danyliw
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [OAUTH-WG] Building Real Internet Platforms Mark Nottingham
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Larry Masinter
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Jim Manico
- [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating OAuth… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jim Willeke
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jim Willeke
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Tim Bray
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Michael Richardson
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Phillip Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Seán Kelleher
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Seán Kelleher
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… ST GERMAIN
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Tim Bray
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- [OAUTH-WG] How to tell people... Was: We appear t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Christian Huitema
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… David Waite
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jeff Craig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Vittorio Bertola