Return-Path: X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC90C169402 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:18:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.105 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=parecki.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pxSAg9MBTNut for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E78EC14F5E5 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4afe4f1ce18so1638733137.3 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=parecki.com; s=google; t=1737490674; x=1738095474; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=APsjsS9uEVfg6WQCHjpkKPKlZX7/xZrpB42fo6wO87U=; b=F28j4nAd4uGiUdPgkO1PAJRisf76lKpgqmLdecH9h/eBJ8T4XkwMXKzdA6HoBiqLDH GZXwc9VG/QPRxDM5EH8tzBOJidyQ9Vfj34yMEuzyUDRK1Y5SJgcqAftyrj0ydrRpkgju 0sm//PwtVtBKczRQReQ0mEIWUEdhPPvozEyFvIYkMdPGzrVHiKdqGEUEZjlfY69xav/H 7vPg2+OZS8LS6WxVnW0AtxbUl+UsRKzK4Q7agm81T+OGJpnjOwYc3iE0Z+K95gmlnouX swevHl/GZ0IHzfA/D6kb1iFfPdrOh9ILyEdz9BYoeHquBRMGWel3l4omu5CgkvTyuC/G lkKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1737490674; x=1738095474; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=APsjsS9uEVfg6WQCHjpkKPKlZX7/xZrpB42fo6wO87U=; b=Cf+K4hQilXHSA/wGAxQ/2OEHO0Gu1c5POVBWXVmEpdSe3JXfurV1dxd99qWJdlSolk Izv5miajRq685jk5TzDnIbIWWCuaZAta4wPR83jMI9OWPBZRf9IDdJ3gHW4y2AzVH4pv f/Z2lT1gYrdWGvnbUOicxccnvB+mYqKSO4xaaSjBaZ9RArKsBWWufc/4woMde/cM19qG lGKP5ovU0RoR6kLMVwxDkIMi/fgntVs7Rrcz/7sla5+NoynHaQ5/jeqgz2JR/eftvUKr jzM3tLBb+ewwaGngbhiMqXzoy+1Z/VktaCZwZw+bmHiSPway9MJIhbe1eWCIThpRrdO7 DYOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx50ryX7NrK0lQuxKNzoVxxTBQrcFqhKy4TtDSx0f7dRuRgyb8g JSmhdll6IC4hMDx5G/Hi4fpk2wdAxguaJ8JHiJX59llYudVBmlDDG+/GyNiNNktg4H/xkjfarYw = X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct/EI5bGHDg49XD0OUziVcHA8T2sOd5yJ2l8FatRUhbgpvpOF7tf5+YKLwCfXr NpUhTdwCHHENcd2sP6n6oZnvov/0IN8Xa3lt2P7wrJmMlB1sVUxJsUfcXm8f/ERXWAYAzhGrluo PAx5cqRbpX4Lha3yz+j/KIpTo8ZwCsTbADkvnXOZbCfEIUO+tnlqnteXvkpYIBy0/CVJP9VyrU+ qSbHK9f8OqU8LgA2u/hHQskFnnB86fl+vATyIU2ox/boeSmctnWz40k4RvpZtwnvam5z+hl6Eod 6KD69yBE8jDyznDU2p85Uefy1OhbzdPA X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE+s+w7GEmJ3z+pn/LrTgecNhWh9hBBfxyVTeldR6NAHGosfnYKNYMTFzr4VBmaOJf8NQ9cRg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:374e:b0:4b6:d773:afca with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4b6d773b459mr3488976137.16.1737490674469; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk1-f175.google.com (mail-vk1-f175.google.com. [209.85.221.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a1e0cc1a2514c-8642ccac9d9sm2552423241.33.2025.01.21.12.17.53 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vk1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-518ae5060d4so1696090e0c.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:8c5:b0:518:8bfe:d5f0 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-51d51a6e4f3mr13617201e0c.0.1737490672921; Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aaron Parecki Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:17:42 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvZg-HsppZ8krR8xIbdDQNKoK1EGPlwLkkRm8cb4A2JEexISRjlJ8VAKKk4 Message-ID: To: Phillip Hallam-Baker Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005c3c5d062c3d12e9" Message-ID-Hash: HFELFYSOTDIAJNC22ZMKGZFQ452BRNLI X-Message-ID-Hash: HFELFYSOTDIAJNC22ZMKGZFQ452BRNLI X-MailFrom: aaron@parecki.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-oauth.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: oauth@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5BOAUTH-WG=5D_Re=3A_DNS_Handles?= List-Id: OAUTH WG Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000005c3c5d062c3d12e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Phillip, please take a look at this spec which is a complete description of everything to implement a profile of OAuth based on DNS handles: https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org I also have a blog post that talks about this architecture from an OAuth POV: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/07/7/oauth-for-the-open-web This has been deployed for many years, though not at the scale of BlueSky. There's a few commercial services that use it, there's plugins for Wordpress and Drupal, and a bunch of home-grown implementations. I've been breaking up the spec into smaller I-Ds, most recently presenting this at the OAuth interim meeting earlier this month: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-parecki-oauth-client-id-scheme https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-parecki-oauth-client-id-metadat= a-document These are also what the BlueSky implementation is based on. Aaron On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:03=E2=80=AFPM Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:43=E2=80=AFPM Warren Parad w= rote: > >> The only thing lacking is a base of authentication service providers tha= t >>> are willing to give users control. >> >> >> As someone who works for one of those "authentication service providers"= , >> what exactly would we need to support that we don't already? >> > > I am writing a draft. The short answer is almost nothing. But not nothing= . > > The longer answer is that we need to have: > > 1) A detailed explanation that puts ALL the information needed to > implement against the profile in one place. I am working on an Internet > draft to do exactly that. > > 2) A discussion of how to best present the scheme as something whose > primary purpose is as an authentication provider rather than an account > with one social media property that can also be used elsewhere. > > 3) A discussion of how to use the DNS handles to enable end-to-end secure > messaging. If Bob is reading a comment by Alice under @alice.example.com, > that is the handle he is likely to want to use to message her. > > 4) A discussion about what else we might want a DNS handle provider to > support. I have a prototype running that extends to supporting the IoT > requirements raised in SETTLE. > > Right now, we have 'a' way to do this which is not necessarily the best > way or the way that allows us to grow in all the ways we might want in th= e > future. > > I have a history of being able to market protocols and get them into > widespread use. I haven't always been successful but have more successes > than failures and I think I know what it takes to make DNS Handles widely > used, which businesses I need to approach, etc. etc. > > The reason I am raising this here now, is that before I go round to the > DNS registrars (and their affiliates) and the VPN providers and such to s= ay > this is the thing to do, I want to make sure we have everything straight = at > a technical level so we are all on the same page. > > > _______________________________________________ > OAuth mailing list -- oauth@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org > --0000000000005c3c5d062c3d12e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Phillip, please take a look at this spec which is a comple= te description of everything to implement a profile of OAuth based on DNS h= andles:


I also hav= e a blog post that talks about this architecture from an OAuth POV:=C2=A0http= s://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/07/7/oauth-for-the-open-web

=
This has been deployed for many years, though not at the scale o= f BlueSky. There's a few commercial services that use it, there's p= lugins for Wordpress and Drupal, and a bunch of home-grown implementations.=

I've been breaking up the spec into smaller I= -Ds, most recently presenting this at the OAuth interim meeting earlier thi= s month:


These are also what the Blu= eSky implementation is based on.

Aaron
=
On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:03=E2=80=AFPM Phillip Hallam-Bak= er <phill@hallambaker.com&g= t; wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:43=E2=80=AFPM Warren Parad <wparad@rhosys.ch> wrote:=
The only thing lacking is a base of authentication service providers = that are willing to give users control.

As = someone who works for one of those "authentication service providers&q= uot;, what exactly would we need to support that we don't already?

I am writing a draft. The short answer is almost nothing. Bu= t not nothing.
=
The longer= answer is that we need to have:

1) A detailed explanation that puts ALL the information needed to i= mplement against the profile in one place. I am working on an Internet draf= t to do exactly that.

2) = A discussion of how to best present the scheme as something whose primary p= urpose is as an authentication provider rather than an account with one soc= ial media property that can also be used elsewhere.

3) A discussion of how to use the DNS handles to= enable end-to-end secure messaging. If Bob is reading a comment by Alice u= nder=C2=A0@alice.exa= mple.com, that is the handle he is likely to want to use to message her= .=C2=A0

4) A discussion a= bout what else we might want a DNS handle provider to support. I have a pro= totype running that extends to supporting the IoT requirements raised in SE= TTLE.

Right now, we have = 'a' way to do this which is not necessarily the best way or the way= that allows us to grow in all the ways we might want in the future.
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">
I have a history of being able= to market protocols and get them into widespread use. I haven't always= been successful but have more successes than failures and I think I know w= hat it takes to make DNS Handles widely used, which businesses I need to ap= proach, etc. etc.

The rea= son I am raising this here now, is that before I go round to the DNS regist= rars (and their affiliates) and the VPN providers and such to say this is t= he thing to do, I want to make sure we have everything straight at a techni= cal level so we are all on the same page.


_______________________________________________
OAuth mailing list -- o= auth@ietf.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oauth-leave@ietf.org
--0000000000005c3c5d062c3d12e9--