Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> Tue, 23 February 2021 12:46 UTC
Return-Path: <brong@fastmailteam.com>
X-Original-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: oauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C003A2AC7; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 04:46:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=WGUmoohv; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Couz7PSk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QjSbvpkzWOQf; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 04:46:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF4C53A2AC6; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 04:46:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19AB75C0066; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:46:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:46:56 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to :references:date:from:to:cc:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=C3JN sB17OPuL+DcurAhKv6ngEPBDxXsVmb5fqqvyhcM=; b=WGUmoohvwusaN5LyfA/U 5z6U5Y/sYkxxElnEEJMkLwnrKQ462+FxfWNH/6/A0XRLe7wlNzcfyd51F3S3wtna xX8Zkw4NOZZGdP90VD/g70rr/VyAMmK8NpEBRkHEfz0fN4htbx7yBL5JP3s2fXkI dV6QWZCgDSH3P77kDXkhVU6EHa7WL3dBBhp0VHGA8xOonkfW/N4CB+o/CdEtx/48 7q0sT3ih6ffowG0eFiA084N3moDMO5zHytEGNYXfbR8EdXUyibe4yLeKhk6uo8eD dvi+BOdft9hFchw8awJTHSZiM01DY7Ap9O2LiLTJQpELLCigFSBYUE026oFVrw7D wA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=C3JNsB 17OPuL+DcurAhKv6ngEPBDxXsVmb5fqqvyhcM=; b=Couz7PSk8Ctxy7JZpFe1sw 8+HrP6CMgR/NPRERxgxVGTnFFE2e5GOQJ7hDOe31+8WPRpdgRyddMSlTaZJ0NmKT wvsNDr6ZRnL5ztMr8ZAsKqf9KDE91at+nORAd3qaY7LaZ792bV3A7daa3+iHsq53 PbdC3WFi3uXJt5A3dXpMUGdVbcm1KgyfPvnsaOSzCmBQvWxh3A+d+BKV9mHajwzS LFAXzmfzneHK85augl0DVnBQKQQFa2Fm6ELofKpo1yEz+iAwpcThtMGUxnLp2J90 Y9VwGcombw+VmSpQd+G8a3aq6Aiyl1D+pswLCQImVYHp0d7afg0VD7wQF1053pig ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:P_k0YFgn_dnA4AN2ND3Z2H0Eb3TqCXKOu37A-iQQrJZK5u_ry8khoQ> <xme:P_k0YKDsOB9PZYu7cCsHXINSS60h5f2A4bTsrmMhN8eAxknqv43_FI8uwihjgvndZ 7mMohqF1Gc>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrkeehgdeggecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderreerredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfuehrohhn ucfiohhnugifrghnrgdfuceosghrohhnghesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlthgvrghmrdgtohhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedvudeuieehgfdvheeuueejjeeuudfgiefgveetfeelteef fffgtdejjefgueduvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpegsrhhonhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhhtvggrmhdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:P_k0YFHYtErVqmgOCEbFpKAPOe0OmwwHR0AOaO8ZSuxeicdqOnAeAw> <xmx:P_k0YKRM6DaIQVgbCEieirCgcWU6LeSVTGQZwVobUeoM3Tgv5YAFTg> <xmx:P_k0YCy-NzFBWatUfVic5oCU2e3NHhFy7M_QK02waJnA0Aow8HUw2A> <xmx:QPk0YHrIlmbcW0plvzFUsXAHSCZL5s3OHNGjtq8REo7_Le89CHVWow>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3785A3604F6; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 07:46:55 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-141-gf094924a34-fm-20210210.001-gf094924a
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <10fd9d2d-afb4-44aa-b618-fb5ce1efa69e@dogfood.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CADNypP8GKTY-Jhpb6AEfcpXOihwLap7OrrByNemGc2GNvZLeog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com> <3c2d646d-f18d-4d88-b458-29dbd486432b@beta.fastmail.com> <AM0PR08MB371669108E9CEA561BEC9EF6FA809@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <d6648437-332b-4668-a1c7-591f2c287539@dogfood.fastmail.com> <CADNypP8GKTY-Jhpb6AEfcpXOihwLap7OrrByNemGc2GNvZLeog@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 23:46:34 +1100
From: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
To: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef <rifaat.s.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "oauth@ietf.org" <oauth@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1a1bc007cb7b428d912b49137431339d"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/wJq3GLSRI5jP1a_tnNi3A70xOUY>
Subject: Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
X-BeenThere: oauth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: OAUTH WG <oauth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/oauth/>
List-Post: <mailto:oauth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/oauth>, <mailto:oauth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:46:59 -0000
On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, at 23:40, Rifaat Shekh-Yusef wrote: > So you have never reached out to us to try to bring any work to the WG, and based on attending one meeting and hearing from a few people, you formed a strong opinion and declared that "nothing would get done"? that seems odd. Based on a few meetings, and having heard from many people. > For your information, last year we published 4 RFCs, and we already have 3 documents with the IESG and more to come. That's good to hear. > If you have anything you want to bring to the OAuth WG, Hannes and I would be happy to discuss this with you or anyone that wants to bring work to the OAuth WG. Thanks. I don't mean to pick on OAuth specifically, but I also would recommend that you ask around and see whether my view of the culture of the OAuth working group is widely shared within the IETF or whether I've managed to find myself inside a small echo chamber that has a poor opinion of the welcoming-ness of the working group. Either way, the fact that the participants of the JMAP working group (including myself) who were all new to the IETF at the time were warned that OAuth is not a place where you can reasonably expect to get your work advanced is an indictment of SOMETHING, and that's worth having a think about in terms of making the IETF a welcoming place. Regards, Bron. -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing an Au… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Roman Danyliw
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Brian Campbell
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Phil Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] JMAP's experience with proposing a… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [OAUTH-WG] Building Real Internet Platforms Mark Nottingham
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Larry Masinter
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Jim Manico
- [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating OAuth… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] Diversity and Inclusiveness in the… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Neil Madden
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jim Willeke
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jim Willeke
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Tim Bray
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Michael Richardson
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Phillip Hunt
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Seán Kelleher
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Seán Kelleher
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… ST GERMAIN
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Evert Pot
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Justin Richer
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Warren Parad
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Tim Bray
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- [OAUTH-WG] How to tell people... Was: We appear t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Christian Huitema
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… David Waite
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Aaron Parecki
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Jeff Craig
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [OAUTH-WG] We appear to still be litigating O… Vittorio Bertola