"Jim Wing (J W)" <jwwing@vnet.ibm.com> Thu, 15 October 1992 22:03 UTC
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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:03:29 -0500
From: "Jim Wing (J W)" <jwwing@vnet.ibm.com>
To: ietf-oda@cs.ucl.ac.uk, info-oda+@andrew.cmu.edu
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OIW/ODA 92/1202 OIW ODA SIG minutes September 22-24, 1992 Gaithersburg, MD Submitted by JW Wing The meeting was chaired by Jim Wing, Chair, and was attended by 19 persons plus 4 additional who attended the tutorial only. After administrative information was given, Mr. Wing made announcements regarding ODA SIG business: 1. Technical Liaison Committee (TLC) report - SGFS taxonomy issues were discussed. The issue of who is responsible for ISP taxonomy that we had thought belonged to ISP owners is to be re-addressed as a regional issue. 2. Proposed rules for development of regional profiles has been reworded and approved. The changes will be discussed at the RWS-CC meeting. The major items of business are: 1. Status on PAGODA #12, DISP Ballots, Taxonomy, FOD36 editing, and Image application activities. 2. Object ID Registry final update. 3. Election of officers - Mr. Wing has resigned as Chair in a letter to Tim Boland. After contributions to the meeting were distributed, a draft agenda for the meeting was presented which was essentially identical to the draft agenda proposed in the meeting notice. This agenda was approved. The minutes of the June 1992 meeting in Gaithersburg were approved. Technical Activities -------------------- In plenary session on Tuesday, Sept 20, 1992, status reports on work efforts of the SIG were given by Jim Wing, Frank Spielman, and Jon Stewart. The areas covered by the reports were: 1. PAGODA #12 - this meeting is to be held in Dallas, TX, during the week of October 19-23, 1992. The meeting room is the the Austin Room at IBM's Southlake facility located near D/FW airport. Maps and information sheets are available, and a meeting notice was distributed with the Sept OIW ODA SIG meeting notice mailed in August 1992. Agenda items include: - ISR proforma and requirements progression. - Extensions to FOD26. - Image DAP progression. - Abstract Test Suite progression. Minutes 2 2. DISP Ballot Resolution meeting update - the formal output from this meeting was received, reviewed and comments returned. The submission of this material, that is, the formal disposition of comments is submitted to SGFS. The final text for the ISPs is progressing, but approximately one month behind schedule. 3. FODxx Editing - the editors meeting was held in Tokyo on July 23-24, 1992. The final editing instructions and editorial changes were agreed upon and a schedule set that would provide final texts to ISO by early September. It now looks like early October is possible. 4. Taxonomy Status - the SGFS reviewed the PAGODA 10 proposal for taxonomy changes to the TR10000 document and responded with several requests for clarification: a) FOD11, FOD26, and FOD36 are being published, won't this change affect the publication? b) SGFS does not agree with the use of "version". c) SGFS is not clear on the relationship of the proposed initial digit and the version number. d) SGFS is not clear on the need for a different numbering scheme. e) SGFS is not clear that taxonomy identifier titles are correct. It was decided to submit the SGFS taxonomy issue to the RWS-CC to obtain a clarification of the intent of SGFS regarding taxonomy. If the SGFS has given responsibility to the ISP owners to determine the subfields of the taxonomy beyond "FOD" in this case, then the raising of multiple questions concerning the taxonomy provided by the responsible groups is inappropriate. If the SGFS intends to review the taxonomy provided in this kind of detail, it should provide representatives to the harmonization groups such as PAGODA. Frank Spielman, NIST, presented the status of ongoing work for the Image Applications subgroup and identified the work for the group during the meetings. Frank Spielman also submitted an updated paper describing the object identifier assignment by the ODA SIG as approved at the June meeting. The ODA tutorial consisted of presentation and discussion led by Jon Stewart, DEC, on SGML/ODA compatibility issues and DTD/DAP comparisons. On Wednesday the ODA SIG subgroups (Text Processing, Image Applications, and Interoperability) met in separate meetings. The minutes of the subgroup meetings are appended to the end of these minutes. The ODA SIG met again Thursday in plenary session to consider the output of the working subgroups and other business. Minutes 3 The Image applications subgroup presented five motions to be presented at the OIW plenary. After presentation and discussion, the following were voted: 1) Make editorial changes to Stable Agreements Part 23, ODA Raster DAP. These changes were the result of a review by DoD and CALS Industry Steering Group (yes=6, no=0, abstain=0). 2) Make technical editorial changes to Stable Agreements Part 23, ODA Raster DAP to allow specification of the bit order within byte for T.4/T.6 encoded data as either "up" or "down" sequence. This involves inserting the use of new object identifiers that are specified in the bit order amendment to T.417 : ISO 8613-7. (yes=6, no=0, abstain=0). 3) Make technical editorial changes to Working Agreements Part 22, ODA Image DAP to allow specification of the bit order within byte for T.4/T.6 encoded data as either "up" or "down" sequence. This involves inserting the use of new object identifiers that are specified in the bit order amendment to T.417 : ISO 8613-7. Include a note that this is intended to change to Stable Agreements in Dec 1992. (yes=6, no=0, abstain=0). 4) Liaison to PAGODA submitting the following contributions on behalf of OIW: a) OIW position on Raster and Image DAP issues b) ODA Raster DAP revised c) ODA Image DAP revised d) Add tiled raster content to future revised FOD36 e) Add pel path / line direction to future revised FOD26 f) Requirements for specifying T.4 / T.6 bit order (information) (yes=6, no=0, abstain=0). The Text Processing subgroup presented motions to be presented at the OIW plenary. After presentation and discussion the following were voted: 1) Liaison to AOW with copies to EWOS and CCITT stating that we support their work on abstract test cases and promising a review by the interoperability subgroup following the December 1992 meeting. (yes=6, no=0, abstain=0). 2) Liaison to PAGODA submitting the following contributions on behalf of OIW: a) ISR document revised to PAGODA 11 output. b) ISR proforma issues c) Discussion of proposals to enhance FOD26. d) Proposal to enhance FOD26 (FOD26E) e) Conformance testing position f) Comments on the use of itemisation g) Comments on the use of offset h) Position on ISR for FOD36 alternative to FOD26E (vote on a-h was: yes=7, no=0, abstain=0). i) Response to SGFS comments on taxonomy (vote on i only: yes=5, no=0, abstain=0). 4) Liaison to EWOS, AOW, and CCITT submitting the editting instructions for FOD26 that enhance the functionality of FOD26. (yes=7, no=0, abstain=0). Minutes 4 Other business included: 1. Discussion of plans for PAGODA #12 and review the proposed agenda. 2. The PAGODA #12 delegation was selected and approved as follows: Jim Wing, IBM US, head of delegation Patrick Stephens, DEC Rick Pond, IBM Canada Frank Spielman, NIST (yes=7, no=0, abstain=0) 3. Election of officers was discussed. The discussion centered around possible ways of realigning the ODA SIG procedures to share the responsibilities. Both a Chair and a Secretary are needed. Current subgroup chairs indicated a willingness to continue their responsibilities. Jon Stewart agreed to take responsibility for the tutorial sessions. Jon also agreed to check with his DEC to determine if they would support him in the Chair position. Michelle Oh, Mitre, agreed to check with her management to determine if they will support her acceptance of the Secretary position. No votes were taken. 4. Reminder of the need to review the charter and of future plans including updates of the planning charts. Future meetings are: PAGODA 12 in Dallas, Texas, October 19-23, 1992. The next OIW ODA SIG meeting is Dec 15, 1992, in Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA. Minutes 5 ================================================================== Text Processing Subgroup Report Submitted by J. Wing The Text Processing subgroup met Wednesday, Sept 23, 1992, during the OSI Implementors Workshop in Gaithersburg, MD. Attendees were: Michelle Oh, MITRE Joe Middleton, DWA Harold Shinsato, XEROX Patrick Stephens, DEC Jim Wing, IBM USA The Text Processing subgroup: - Reviewed and reaffirmed the proposed OIW Implementation Support Requirements (ISR) document based on PAGODA #11 agreements. * ISR editor (J. Wing) provided the updated document in the Working Agreements. * Future work on ISR includes incorporating changes due to changes in the DAPs currently occurring, especially the geometric graphics changes. - Reviewed SGFS comments and request for clarifications. It was pointed out that the supporting documentation was apparently not used in reaching the decision to request clarification, and that some of the suggestions (questions) seemed to indicate a misunderstanding of the ideas behind the proposals. It was decided to submit a contribution to PAGODA 12. - Reviewed, modified and approved the contributions to PAGODA 12 as prepared by J. Wing. * W1 OIW Level 2 ODA DAP Implementation Support Requirements document. The liaison OIW/ODA 92/0923 to EWOS, AOW and CCITT is to be included as part of the ISR contribution. * W2 Issues on ISR proforma revised to reflect OIW ODA SIG positions on terminology and database. * W3 Discussion of FOD26 Enhancements. This document is historical, in that it specifies the original intent of OIW ODA SIG with regard to enhancements to FOD26. * W4 FOD26E, Enhancements to FOD26. This document is a proposal for changes to the FOD26 document to provide minimum capabilities for simple word processing products. The liaison OIW/ODA 92/0911 to AOW, EWOS, and CCITT submitting this document for review and summarizing the changes is to be included. * W5 Conformance testing. This document states the OIW ODA SIG positions relative to testing issues. * W6 and W7 are responses to comments on Itemisation and Offset. These are historical in nature, and represent OIW ODA SIG positions on usage of these ODA attributes. Both of these contributions were updated to reflect current information. Minutes 6 * The contribution W8 referred to a Proposal for Numbering Schemes which we decided to withdraw. In its place, the OIW ODA SIG position on "ISR for FOD36 as a replacement for the proposal on FOD26E" will be submitted stating that an ISR for FOD36 implies multiple ISRs, is confusing to the user who expects support of FOD36 but gets little more than FOD26, and is difficult for the vendors to implement. P. Stephens and J. Wing will provide the text for this contribution. * Another contribution, W9, is to be provided by J. Wing to respond to the SGFS requests for clarification on DAP taxonomy. (The vote on these contributions was unanimous.) - Reviewed submissions from AOW on test cases for FOD11 and FOD36. o Prepared a liaison to EWOS, AOW, and CCITT indicating our support of this work effort and that the interoperability subgroup has indicated a willingness to review the information and provide comments following the Dec OIW ODA SIG meeting. (The vote on this liaison was unanimous.) - Action items: * Convert ASCII flat file form of FOD26E into WordPerfect 5.1 for a working agreements document - Wing * Create Level 2 ISR in WordPerfect 5.1. * Create FOD36 ISR - Wing * Obtain new part in working agreeements for new DAP - Wing This will wait until after PAGODA 12. Minutes 7 ================================================================== ODA SIG Image Applications Subgroup Minutes of September 22-24 Meeting Submitted by Frank Spielman The Image Applications Subgroup of the ODA SIG met on Wednesday, September 23, 1992. Attendees were: Alan Peltzman, DISA Rick Pond, IBM Canada Les Potter, PRC Annette Shuford, Navy/DTMB Frank Spielman, NIST The subgroup reviewed comments on the ODA Raster DAP (Stable Agreements) that were submitted by DoD/CALS Industry Steering Group (OIW/ODA 92/0915). These comments were the result of an extensive review of the draft MIL-R-28002B which will includes the ODA Raster DAP as an appendix. All of the comments except one on bit order were editorial. The subgroup reviewed each comment deciding upon the ODA SIG action to take (accept, reject, modify and accept). The technical change was rejected because it overlapped with a separate proposal addressing bit order. The subgroup then approved these actions to make the editorial revisions to the ODA Raster DAP in the Stable Agreements. The actions are documented in OIW/ODA 92/XXXX. The editorial revisions will also need to be made to the ODA Image DAP but will be made at the December meeting. (5-0-0) The subgroup then reviewed the technical proposal (OIW/ODA 92/916) concerning the bit order of CCITT T.4/T.6 encoded data. It proposed removing the restrictions in the Raster/Image DAPs that require the bit order of T.4/T.6 encoded data to be in the up order, that is, the least significant bit (LSB) to most signifcant bit (MSB) order. Secondly, it proposed adding object identifier values to the DAPs for "type of coding" and "tile types" that support both bit order directions, that is, also support down order which is the MSB to LSB order. This revision will allow DoD to use the down order and AIIM to use either bit order. The proposal to make this revision in the Stable Agreements ODA Raster DAP was approved (5-0-0). The specific changes are also documented in OIW/ODA 92/XXXX (page 26, para 8.3). A fall back position was also approved (5-0-0) to change the Working Agreements ODA Raster DAP in the case that the OIW plenary did not approve the technical errata in the Stable Agreements. A proposal was approved to make the bit order revision in the Working Agreements ODA Image DAP adding a note that the intent is to move the revision to Stable Agreements in December 1992. (5-0- 0) During the discussion of bit order, a defect was identified in the bit order mapping amendment to ISO 8613-7 (OIW/ODA 92/931). Frank Spielman will prepare a defect report and send to Herman Silbiger, CCITT editor. Minutes 8 The subgroup then discussed image applications contributions to be taken to PAGODA #12 in October. The subgroup approved the following: (1) OIW Position on Issues, (2) ODA Image DAP, (3) ODA Raster DAP, (4) Adding Tiled Raster Content to Future FOD 36, (5) Adding Pel Path and Line Progression to Future FOD 26, and (6) Information on OIW Requirements for Bit Order. The first five are updates of contributions previously approved (OIW/ODA 92/0931 & 0611), only the sixth one is a new contribution. (5-0-0) The subgroup then discussed the taxonomy concerns raised by SGFS (OIW/ODA 92/0918). It is the subgroup's position that no further changes should be made and that further clarification on the OIW position should be forwarded. The ODA Raster DAP ISR (OIW/ODA 92/0350) was briefly discussed but there was not enough time remaining to discuss in detail or to take any actions. At the ODA SIG plenary on September 24, each of the above proposals was presented and approve (6-0-0 on each proposal). Minutes 9 ================================================================== ODA SIG Interoperability Subgroup Minutes of Sept 23 Meeting Submitted by Jon Stewart Attendees were: Jon Stewart, Chair (DEC Contractor) Patrick Stephens, DEC Harold Shinsato, XEROX MacFarland Hale, Mitre Joanna Vanderwilt, Consultant Jon Stewart updated the group on the status of funding for the ODA Interoperability Testing Project, the relationship to OSINET as a subproject, and the OSINET contract with Paul Pedersen, Independent ODA Consultant in Montreal, Canada. Startup funding of $10,000 (DEC, Boeing) has been paid to OSINET; XEROX has a $5,000 payment in the works; and Dept of Communications, Canada, has agreed to pay $5,000 directly to Paul Pedersen in support of the project. With this $20,000 in funding, the project should be able to continue through January 31, 1993, producing the following results: 1 A technical report detailing the methodology utilized for ODA Interoperability testing. Currently in draft, this document will be circulated by OSINET, probably by 11/30/92. 2 A complete analysis of the "abstract effects" (AE's) represented in a small set (10-20) of key text documents (KTD's). 3 A detailed explanation of the relationship of the AEs in the KTDs to "observable effects" (OE's) perceived by the user when processing ODA documents with current products. 4 Test scenarios (in the form of verbal scripts) for utilizing the KTDs in "evaluating" the Implementation Under Test (IUT's). 5 Criteria for measuring the degree to which OEs faithfully "reproduce" the intent of the document originator (as expressed by the AEs in the document). Minutes 10 Given completion of the above steps, it will then be possible for vendors who are members of OSINET to register ODA Interoperability test results in the OSINET database. Although of interest to the members of the project, it will NOT be possible to accomplish the following objectives in this first (and we hope not the last) phase of the project: 1 Complete relationship of the other Interoperability or datastream conformance testing to this work. We will look at ISRs, ATCs and any "real document" testing going on, BUT not necessarily conform to or utilize this work. 2 Preparation of an exhaustive test suite for any particular ISP (ie, DAP and ISR). 3 Evaluation of and/or "marking" of any particular product. We believe this ODA Interoperability testing project will be useful in the more general scope of compound document interchange and processing, whether that is based on formal standards, such as ODA or SGML, or one of the proprietary defacto standards. With that intent, we hope to eventually produce an exhaustive analysis of this subject - that is, "interoperability" between different compound document processing systems.