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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 15:54:22 -0600
From: "Jim Wing (J W)" <jwwing@vnet.ibm.com>
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The following document is the final draft minutes of PAGODA 12 held in Dallas, TX USA in October 1992. These minutes are subject to approval at the next meeting of PAGODA tentatively scheduled for the week of March 29 - April 2, 1993 in the UK. Contact is Steve Price of EWOS, s.price@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk, 44 298 816047 phone and fax. ===================forwarded document============================== PAGODA 12 Minutes Dates: October 19-23, 1992 Location: Westlake, Texas, USA Attendees: Jim Wing, PAGODA 12 Chair, IBM USA, head of OIW delegation Ian Valentine, Level-7, EWOS Ian Campbell-Grant, ICL, head of EWOS delegation Richard Carr, NCC, EWOS Makoto Oya, Hitachi, head of AOW delegation Heinz Schmied, IBM Germany, EWOS Patrick Stephens, DEC, OIW Tom Slade, PAGODA 12 Secretary, IBM, OIW Fabrice Bourge, France Telecom, CCITT Frank Spielman, NIST, OIW Rick Pond, IBM Canada, OIW Opening/meeting administration: Jim Wing welcomed and introduced the participants. The minutes of the previous two meetings were discussed and accepted as is (P12-2, P12-3). After review of the action lists from the previous meeting, it was decided that all actions had been satisfactorily closed. Presentation of positions: Makoto Oya introduced documents P12-04 through P12-13 as contributions for discussion on behalf of AOW. Ian Campbell-Grant introduced documents P12-14 through P12-26 as EWOS contributions. Jim Wing presented P12-27 to P12-35 as OIW contributions. Fabrice Bourge presented P12-45, CCITT Recommendation T.510, as a contribution from CCITT. Agenda: The following agenda was agreed upon: 1. FOD Issues 1a. general policy for FOD evolution 1b. fast path procedures 1c. proposed extensions to level 2 DAP (FOD26E) 2. Image Applications DAPs progression 3. DAP Taxonomy 4. Testing (Part 3) issues 4a. Abstract Test Suites 4b. Test Case Directory 5. Profiles for use with CGM 6. DAPs for application specific information types within ODA document 7. ISR Proforma and Policies 7a. use of database tool 7b. multiple proforma possibility 7c. P10 60 report 7d. General framework P10 5 7e. examples of proforma; are they merges? 8. Fonts Detailed discussion by topic: 1. FOD Issues 1a. general policy for FOD evolution Ian Campbell-Grant explained this issue as a problem of how the FODs should accommodate new functionality as available in the base standard. For example, color and security capabilities are in the 1993 published version of 8613 and will eventually need to be addressed by the profiles. Audio and hypertext capabilities are in the pipe for future versions of the base standard. The group decided to defer consideration of this problem until the next meeting. Concrete proposals were invited for consideration at the next meeting. 1b. fast path procedures The question from OIW concerning fast path processing for rapid adoption of ISPs was answered negatively. The current ISP procedure approximates the fast path procedure for DIS used by ISO. 1c. proposed extensions to level 2 DAP (FOD26E) OIW proposed extensions to FOD26 to align with functionality expected by users of major word processing products. Patrick Stephens made the case for a level of functionality that would match current market expectations of users of word processing products, but not incur the large increment of expense necessary to implement the level 3 profile. The RISE project which is using ODA for the interchange of standards documents, for example, finds current word processing capabilities adequate, but FOD26 inadequate. He presented FOD26E (P12-30) as a proposed minimal set of extensions. Much discussion ensued on this topic. EWOS, AOW and CCITT had brought in positions opposing the proposed set of extensions in FOD26E from OIW. AOW opposed FOD26E because the OIW proposal does not cover world-wide requirements. Any enhancements would require considerable discussion and negotiation, and also would be dependent upon the FOD evolution policy yet to be determined. It became clear that the workshops could neither agree on support of enhancements to FOD26 nor a sub-setting of FOD36 to meet the particular needs addressed by FOD26E in a timely manner. The attendees agreed on a two-part position: a) that needs for different sets of functionality than met by the ISPs should be pursued as regional profiles; b) that PAGODA strongly encouraged maintaining subset/superset relationships with current ISPs in such regional profiles. P12-56 was accepted with some revisions as describing the PAGODA position. Patrick Stephens accepted the action item to revise the document according to the group's agreement. OIW will pursue the FOD26E functionality as a regional DAP. The general policy for ISP enhancement must be carefully considered. 2. Image Applications DAPs progression A breakout group consisting of Frank Spielman, Rick Pond, Ian Campbell-Grant and Makoto Oya (part time) met to work on an ISP for image. The problems addressed by the breakout group are described in the report of the breakout group (attachment 1, P12-55). The group reported that the goal of a complete ISP was possible, with an optimistic target date of January 1994. P12-52 was accepted by the plenary. This document is a cover letter requesting harmonization by the workshops on the proposed image profile. The letter will be sent to SC18, Herman Silbiger. The group discussed including the CCITT. Fabrice Bourge agreed to take it to the CCITT with an invitation to participate in the harmonization process if they desire. P12-53 will be sent along with the minutes of this meeting. The plenary, in the course of discussing P12-52 to P12-54, agreed to title all FOD's using "Open" instead of "Office" document architecture. All workshop editors accepted action items to update their respective documents to reflect this agreement. All editors will put a note at the end of PAD recommendations that the change from "Office" to "Open" was agreed by ISO in 1991. Ian Campbell-Grant took an action item to propose the text of the note to be used by each editor to explain the title change. P12-54 was accepted with revisions. Frank Spielman took an action to mail clean copies to Steve Price. P12-55 This document will be updated by Frank Spielman to include the bit-order discussion from the image breakout group. 3. DAP Taxonomy (response to SGFS taxonomy concerns - P12-35) The hand-written version of P12-51 was accepted by the plenary. The group agreed on a need to produce and send a modified text of the taxonomy to SGFS along with this response. Ian Campbell- Grant took the action to update the taxonomy and to send the letter, P12-35, to SGFS with the updated taxonomy. Mr. Campbell-Grant will attempt to attend the SGFS meeting to present the PAGODA position. 4. Testing (Part 3) issues 4a. Abstract Test Suites P12-48 was accepted with revisions as the PAGODA position to the issues of management and maintenance of Abstract Test Case suites for the ISPs. Richard Carr took the action item to revise this document and send to PAGODA and to the distribution list on the document. 4b. Test Case Directory Because the Abstract Test Suites are potentially very large, what portion will reside in the ISP? The proposed solution is to use the Test Case Directory with a pointer to a separate document (which might not be on paper depending upon its size) that contains the actual test case details. 5. Profiles for use with CGM (P12-17) EWOS is developing a set of CGM profiles that are described in P12-17. The level 1 CGM profile corresponds the graphics capability now included in FOD36. There was interest in moving towards a situation where ODA profiles simply pointed to the appropriate CGM profile rather than having to define their own. For this reason, the absence of a profile level corresponding to the needs of FOD26 was noted. The response to P12-17 indicates interest in eventual use of the CGM profiles and requests consideration of a profile suitable for inclusion by a level two ODA DAP. P12-50 was accepted as representing the PAGODA position on the CGM profile work and will be circulated to the workshops and to CCITT. The PAGODA response, P12-50, was accepted. 6. DAPS for application specific information types within ODA documents Ian Cambell-Grant gave the background to this issue (P12-15) as a need to allow industry specific information such as medical imaging to be carried in otherwise ISP-conformant datastreams. EWOS is undertaking a NWI to develop guidelines for recognizing and incorporating such specialized encodings in a well-defined way. After brief discussion, a PAGODA response to P12-15 was agreed upon, expressing interest and a desire to be informed on the work. This response is found in P12-49. 7. ISR Proforma and Policies The major decision was to assign Ian Valentine to edit common ISR text and table structure and to resolve the OIW and EWOS approaches. Mr. Valentine led a break-out group to set up detailed editing instructions and principles for consolidating sources of text. The results of this breakout group are summarized in P12-58. A tentative work schedule was agreed upon in plenary after presentation of the breakout group results. 7a. use of database tool It was agreed that there was a need for paper versions of both proforma and abstract test cases. It was further agreed that the database tool under development by EC for ISR statements and abstract test case information had advantages and was not inconsistent with the requirement for paper versions, since these could be generated by the database application. 7b. multiple proforma possibility The OIW position endorsing the possibility of multiple proformas for the ISPs was tabled in favor of an agreement to strive for common text for PAGODA. 7c. P10 60 report This document was reaffirmed as the technical basis for the ISR details. 7d. General framework P10 5 This document was reaffirmed as the policy statement for general framework of the ISR proforma. 7e. examples of proforma; can they merge? The group finally decided that the workshops would merge the proforma proposals by selecting a single editor to establish the detailed proforma based upon the discussion and resultant tentative agreements made in the breakout group. 8. Fonts The font issues were resolved by the ISR breakout group. General agreements: The plenary agreed that all revisions to documents accepted by attendees as action items would be completed by 12/01/92. PAGODA #13 plans: The next meeting will be held the week of May 10, 1993 to dovetail with CCITT's meeting which ends May 7 (and to avoid other conflicts). EWOS will host the meeting. Heinz Schmied volunteer to try to arrange for IBM Germany to host the meeting in Stuttgart. Submitted by T. Slade, PAGODA 12 Secretary