Re: [ogpx] Virtual worlds versus the real world

[Morgaine <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Infinity Linden (Meadhbh Hamrick) <
[e-mail]> wrote:

this is definitely cool stuff, but fwiw, i disagree that the purpos of this
> working group is to work on interop between virtual worlds.
>


We've just spent a week discussing multi-world deployments of VWRAP,
consisting of two virtual worlds W1 and W2 containing AD1/AD2, RD1/RD2, and
an agent A1 that travels between worlds, and we achieved more progress on
this deployment pattern last week than in the preceding 2 years of AWG.
Joshua has given us some excellent insights into the requirements of that
deployment pattern, culminating in wholesale agreement here --
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ogpx/current/msg00451.html .

Consequently, we most certainly *are* working on interop between virtual
worlds, VWRAP-compatible ones naturally.  This has been decided and agreed
by the group repeatedly over the last several months, because it is a
deployment pattern that interests almost everybody in the group.  You many
wish to consult Joshua on this.



> MMOX is the place for those discussions.



MMOX is the place for discussions about worlds that cannot or do not wish to
interoperate via VWRAP.  We do not prescribe the kinds of worlds that can
use VWRAP, nor proscribe which worlds cannot.  If two worlds implement
VWRAP-compatible endpoints to VWRAP services, then they fall under the
banner of VWRAP.  It's not our business to forbid them.

(It's worth noting that this applies similarly to every other IETF
protocol.)

While it is common to use the shortcut "SL-like" to describe the worlds that
are relevant to us here, VWRAP also applies very strongly to Opensim-based
virtual worlds as well of course.  Yet, Opensim-based virtual worlds can
communicate through MXP and various other interop technologies that are not
VWRAP, and those styles of interop would not concern us here but be a
subject for MMOX.

This highlights vividly that the nature of the worlds that communicate is
not our concern.  Only their interoperation using VWRAP  is relevant to this
workgroup.

Morgaine.






===================================

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Infinity Linden (Meadhbh Hamrick) <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> this is definitely cool stuff, but fwiw, i disagree that the purpose
> of this working group is to work on interop between virtual worlds.
> MMOX is the place for those discussions.
>
> --
>   infinity linden (aka meadhbh hamrick)  *  it's pronounced "maeve"
>         http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Infinity_Linden
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 05:30, Morgaine <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> > Given the recent rash of preoccupation with real-world attributes, I
> think
> > it needs stating that virtual worlds are immensely broader in scope than
> a
> > mere pixellated 3D re-enactment of the real world with all its historical
> > baggage and petty cultural issues.
> >
> > Our interest is in enabling interop between worlds using our particular
> > protocol, not in prescribing the nature of worlds nor in proscribing
> others.
> >
> > For those who have not before seen the topic addressed, I suggest you
> read
> > Henrik Bennetsen's useful summary at
> > http://slcreativity.org/wiki/index.php?title=Augmentation_vs_Immersion .
> > The topic of augmentism versus immersionism has been discussed in immense
> > detail over many years, and if a single article can be said to capture
> the
> > essence, Henrik's comes close.   If after reading this you are still in
> > denial about the separation of worlds, this positions you as an
> augmentist,
> > which is a highly coercive worldview.  Immersionists affirm that all
> worlds
> > are possible and separate and non-interfering, so their worldview is
> > inherently inclusive.
> >
> > Supporting virtual worlds in all their diversity and generality requires
> a
> > broader approach than does a mere re-enactment of the physical world.
> More
> > specifically, it requires an understanding that only a small subset of
> > virtual worlds reflect the real world, and that trying to force them all
> to
> > do so is out of place.
> >
> >
> > Morgaine.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>