Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 24 July 2015 12:39 UTC
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Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:39:07 +0100
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft
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On 24/07/15 11:40, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > To clarify the point I was attempting to make at the mic. Sure. I'll do the same(ish:-) The draft in question is [1] and has been a work item for the DANE WG for a year or so. Please do read and comment on the draft - if there are PGP things in there that need fixing we should get those fixed. Such comments for now are best sent to dane@ietf.org. If you want to comment on the charter of the DANE WG please do so on ietf@ietf.org (or chat with me). Just as with this WG, the DANE charter was subject to IETF last call already. Cheers, S. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-openpgpkey > > 1) The draft is approaching IETF last call. People working on OpenPGP > should review it now. > > 2) If people find it does not meet OpenPGP needs, they should say so and > have no qualms about objecting. It is much more important that there be a > spec people use than that the document progress quickly. > > If people want their drafts to progress quickly they should do that by > getting buy in from the community they purport to be serving. > > 3) It is quite possible that it is better that there be no DANE for PGP RFC > either at this stage or ever. > > DANE is trying to do three different things. It is trying to be a key > discovery service, a security policy publication mechanism and a way of > validating keys using the DNSSEC. This was a task that really demanded a > high level of systems thinking if it is going to succeed. All such advice > was rejected. > > People have been attempting to put email address related records into the > DNS since the first drafts of the spec and none has taken off. > > It might well be that the best way to take advantage of the opportunities > DNSSEC affords would be to make changes at the OpenPGP end rather than the > DNS end. > > I remain convinced that the interface between a DNS based PKI and any other > PKI should be approached as a cross-certification type activity and the > hand over between DNSSEC and whatever other PKI is to be used should be a > single 'certificate' (or key signing or whatever you want to call it). > > So the way that I would approach using DNSSEC to validate a key for ' > alice@example.com' would be to introduce a record in the DNS with the > semantics 'X is authorized to sign for *@example.com'. I would not attempt > to fill the DNS with keys for Alice, Billybob, Carol, Doug, Ethelred and > co. It is not working for TLS and I don't think it will work for OpenPGP or > S/MIME. > > I do not find the idea of relying on the DNS for my keys remotely > comforting and would not want to rely on such a record directly. The DNS > has no persistence to it. Give me the MIT keyserver any day. > > What would interest me is if I could take a DNSSEC trust chain and intern > it in a blockchain. At that point the whole process becomes transparent and > I have a key I can place quite a bit of reliance on. > > > The above might sound a bit handwavy because it is. But I can demonstrate > the claims mathematically in terms of work factor. If the work factor for > introducing a bogus key is $100 at time t and we intern the key (and chain) > in a blockchain at time t, then the work factor becomes > $GDP(USA) after > time t. > > > > _______________________________________________ > openpgp mailing list > openpgp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp >
- [openpgp] The DANE draft Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Aaron Zauner
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Aaron Zauner
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Watson Ladd
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Hoffman
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Hoffman
- Re: [openpgp] The DANE draft Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Hosnieh Rafiee
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Hosnieh Rafiee
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Hosnieh Rafiee
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Vincent Breitmoser
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Jiankang Yao
- Re: [openpgp] [dane] The DANE draft Daniel Kahn Gillmor