Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificates [was: Re: OpenPGP private certification]
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Thu, 02 April 2015 16:19 UTC
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References: <CAA7UWsUz65C0GAQo8Yf7ZOeT9BYy+NLV5pbbPg+Ok0-72ca1eA@mail.gmail.com> <1427140788.10191.75.camel@scientia.net> <5510B7CF.8060308@iang.org> <1427168189.10191.241.camel@scientia.net> <5511FE82.6010807@iang.org> <1427243451.10191.375.camel@scientia.net> <5512F137.80702@iang.org> <CAHBU6isgirHnx+gHP+OiHuvhzD+1OTCShCHEkhWcqEmUn9qnzQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwiXKf1DvgbHaZoJnKdCVbak-jderv6Z8KDs9xPEbUuYQQ@mail.gmail.com> <1427343948.23692.14.camel@scientia.net> <CAMm+Lwi5bVTujuazTXw7oRty7n5RtsObEfNrJzmbtPiOb-X25g@mail.gmail.com> <m27fu3fsom.fsf@usma1mc-0csx92.kendall.corp.akamai.com> <CAMm+LwjBuZfP4NwRCy23_d9eRtcfUiLKdyZOu+jYT72HfB0g9g@mail.gmail.com> <87vbhlt8tg.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net> <CAMm+Lwjo5eyCHNahqWcwUBoaevCw2s3WAeq-2=maW=JEpCFWxA@mail.gmail.com> <87ego3g3v8.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net> <CAMm+Lwh3CiHV4L0PJFFnXdjo3prFOY=OZn5yTwW15BXQWU4RFw@mail.gmail.com> <87wq1vemp5.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net> <CAMm+LwhkB3cHKe-Y34QbL411qVjdzPhv5e8WFiiRSNmrrD_rGw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwirGjoHwEgR=k1MDbXrGKXv0NZnD7jYcWHac2oGbJDCXA@mail.gmail.com> <m2r3s2y1sw.fsf@tereva.kendall.corp.akamai.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 12:19:08 -0400
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
To: Brian Sniffen <bsniffen@akamai.com>
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Cc: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>, IETF OpenPGP <openpgp@ietf.org>, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Subject: Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificates [was: Re: OpenPGP private certification]
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On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Brian Sniffen <bsniffen@akamai.com> wrote: > >> But I am not arguing for first com first served. I am arguing that the >> age of an endorsement is significant. An attacker can easily set up an >> endorsement cartel with 100 people signing each other's keys. But they >> can't backdate the endorsements to ten years before they decided they >> needed them. > > I don't expect to understand most of the hashes in a log of hashed > signatures. I wonder how many cloned subsets would be buried in case > they're later needed, and what can be done about that. The best I can > think of is a transparency log---to not hash those. Big public signers > should offer such logs. Private citizens signing each others keys > probably won't, but it's still valuable to have a standard format for > non-public endorsements. It is still a hard problem. But using the log turns it from a hard problem with an infinite number of possible endorsements to a closed problem with a finite set of endorsements. Closing the problem also means raising the cost of exposure and forces the operator to think very carefully before each action. There is also a maintenance cost if you are doing this on Facebook etc. What I would start off doing is looking at the time span over which the endorsements in a ring were added. An organic web of trust will be established over a period of years. Facebook and Twitter have got a lot better at spotting fake cartels over the years. > Presumably keys should be able to carry a note indicating that > keysignatures should only be trusted if in a log. I don't see that, it is a relying party consideration.
- Re: [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging ianG
- Re: [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging ianG
- Re: [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging Christoph Anton Mitterer
- [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP for? ianG
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Falcon Darkstar Momot
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Stephen Paul Weber
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Stephen Paul Weber
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Wyllys Ingersoll
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Clint Adams
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … ianG
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … ianG
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Tim Bray
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … John Kreznar
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Brian Sniffen
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Bill Frantz
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … Christoph Anton Mitterer
- [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was: Re:… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificates [… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Brian Sniffen
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] Manifesto - who is the new OpenPGP … ianG
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification ianG
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification [was:… ianG
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] public logging of e-mail certificat… ianG
- [openpgp] New encryption formats for messaging David Leon Gil
- Re: [openpgp] OpenPGP private certification Ben McGinnes