Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids.
ianG <iang@iang.org> Tue, 11 August 2015 12:29 UTC
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:29:22 +0100
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Subject: Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids.
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On 11/08/2015 11:10 am, Werner Koch wrote: ... > We have a lot of experience in how to deploy new algorithms and we are > very conservative here. My request for adding SHA3 algo ids does not > mean in any way that I endorse its use or would even suggest that > 4880bis should contain a SHOULD or MAY for implementing such an > algorithm. When we come to the point on deciding on algorithms I would > suggest something like this: > > - Implementations MUST implement SHA-1. Implementations MAY implement > - other algorithms. MD5 is deprecated. > + Implementations MUST implement SHA-1 and SHA2-FIXME. Implementations > + MUST NOT implement MD5. Implementations SHOULD NOT implement > + SHA3-xxxx. Implementations MAY implement other algorithms. > > The algo ids are a different case and I would be fine with the RFC-7120 > method. Iff the unexpected case happens that a severe weakness in SHA2 > is found, the pre-allocated SHA3 ids will allow us to quickly switch to > SHA3. Isn't that the whole point of SHA3 being plugin-in replacements > for SHA2? > > I suggest to use a different thread for discussing algorithm selection > because that is a different topic than assigning algorithm ids. Hmmm... I understand that. What I'm not convinced of is that at the current time we can sensibly allocate the numbers. As far as I can see, to sensibly allocate the numbers, we'd want: * to choose which SHA3 we're going for. This not only means addressing the additionals (like the 4 lengths) but also resolving the uncertainty (perhaps in my mind only) about SHAKES. * to build a more comprehensive alg-failure recovery strategy. By this I mean, more than handwaving at SHA3 as a potential drop in; making it the actual drop in with a process by which we trigger that move and a series of events listed that we anticipate happening; text in the draft that lays that out; etc. Otherwise, we're fortune gazing. (It may sound like I'm engaging in waffly rhetoric again - but there is a known discipline for this. It's called *disaster recovery* and it's a required component of many compliance programmes, taught and certified in various places. There are many people who know how to do this stuff, it's just that it is a relatively new and/or infrequent delivery in the open source crypto world.) iang
- [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Paul Wouters
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [openpgp] Why or why not SHA{2,3}-512 (was: SHA3 … Werner Koch
- [openpgp] WWhy or why not SHA{2,3}-512 (was: SHA3… Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Peter Gutmann
- [openpgp] SHA-x performance (was: SHA3 algorithm … Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance (was: SHA3 algori… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance (was: SHA3 algori… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance (was: SHA3 algori… Dang, Quynh
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] Why or why not SHA{2, 3}-512 (was: … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] Why or why not SHA{2, 3}-512 Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Bill Frantz
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Hilarie Orman
- Re: [openpgp] WWhy or why not SHA{2, 3}-512 (was:… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance NIIBE Yutaka
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] SHA-x performance Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Bill Frantz
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Derek Atkins
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Bill Frantz
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. ianG
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Robert J. Hansen
- Re: [openpgp] SHA3 algorithm ids. Werner Koch