Re: interesting creatures // ? for the open-pgp bestiary
David Shaw <dshaw@jabberwocky.com> Mon, 31 July 2006 22:03 UTC
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:07 -0400
From: David Shaw <dshaw@jabberwocky.com>
To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org
Subject: Re: interesting creatures // ? for the open-pgp bestiary
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On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 04:53:35PM -0400, vedaal@hush.com wrote: > > in rfc 2440 bis-18, section 6.2 > ASCII Armor is described, as well as the different types of header > lines > > in commandline versions of pgp and gnupg, > it is possible to just Armor a file, > not armor sign, or armor encrypt, > just armor > > this is a useful way for including any file type as part of an > inline message, and then signing and encrypting the entire message, > thereby avoiding any attachments, and questions as to the safety > and authorship of the attachment, > but also not leaving one's signature on the file itself > > this type of pgp 'output' is not described anywhere in rfc 2440 It is a "Literal Message" and consists of a single literal data packet (whether armored or not). It is described in section 10.3. > [1] from pgp classic, > using the command: pgp -a filename > [3] from gnupg, > using the command: gpg -a --store filename Both of these create literal messages. > [2] from gnupg, > using the command: gpg --enarmor filename This does not create a literal message, and is not an OpenPGP feature (and is thus not part of 2440 bis or otherwise). It is mainly used as a OpenPGP packet hacking tool and for the GPG selftest. > one unusual feature in all three examples, > is that the line of armored message block is less than 64 > characters. > > is there a minimum length to a line of pgp armor? There is no minimum. The maximum is 76 (section 6.3): The encoded output stream must be represented in lines of no more than 76 characters each. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6VLVMXs095883; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6VLVM4m095882; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6VLVJJG095858 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.60.132.70]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k6VLVDx32692 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:13 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k6VLVB9X004831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:11 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6VLV7qb003631 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:07 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id k6VLV7Gt003630 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:31:07 -0400 From: David Shaw <dshaw@jabberwocky.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: interesting creatures // ? for the open-pgp bestiary Message-ID: <20060731213107.GA3597@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <20060731205336.1F72BDA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060731205336.1F72BDA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-2006-07-14 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 04:53:35PM -0400, vedaal@hush.com wrote: > > in rfc 2440 bis-18, section 6.2 > ASCII Armor is described, as well as the different types of header > lines > > in commandline versions of pgp and gnupg, > it is possible to just Armor a file, > not armor sign, or armor encrypt, > just armor > > this is a useful way for including any file type as part of an > inline message, and then signing and encrypting the entire message, > thereby avoiding any attachments, and questions as to the safety > and authorship of the attachment, > but also not leaving one's signature on the file itself > > this type of pgp 'output' is not described anywhere in rfc 2440 It is a "Literal Message" and consists of a single literal data packet (whether armored or not). It is described in section 10.3. > [1] from pgp classic, > using the command: pgp -a filename > [3] from gnupg, > using the command: gpg -a --store filename Both of these create literal messages. > [2] from gnupg, > using the command: gpg --enarmor filename This does not create a literal message, and is not an OpenPGP feature (and is thus not part of 2440 bis or otherwise). It is mainly used as a OpenPGP packet hacking tool and for the GPG selftest. > one unusual feature in all three examples, > is that the line of armored message block is less than 64 > characters. > > is there a minimum length to a line of pgp armor? There is no minimum. The maximum is 76 (section 6.3): The encoded output stream must be represented in lines of no more than 76 characters each. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6VKrf38088827; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6VKrfLH088826; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.135]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6VKrcDw088815 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vedaal@hush.com) Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (localhost.hushmail.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 77331A32D5 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver8.hushmail.com (mailserver8.hushmail.com [65.39.178.61]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailserver8.hushmail.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1F72BDA820; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:53:35 -0400 To: <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Cc: Subject: interesting creatures // ? for the open-pgp bestiary From: <vedaal@hush.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060731205336.1F72BDA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> in rfc 2440 bis-18, section 6.2 ASCII Armor is described, as well as the different types of header lines in commandline versions of pgp and gnupg, it is possible to just Armor a file, not armor sign, or armor encrypt, just armor this is a useful way for including any file type as part of an inline message, and then signing and encrypting the entire message, thereby avoiding any attachments, and questions as to the safety and authorship of the attachment, but also not leaving one's signature on the file itself this type of pgp 'output' is not described anywhere in rfc 2440 here are some examples (using .txt for convenience, but any file type could be used): [1] from pgp classic, using the command: pgp -a filename -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia-multi06 comment: armored, unsigned, no time owFbI5HElpimV1JRwgAEiUW5+UWpKQppmTmpAA== =qOEV -----END PGP MESSAGE----- the same can be done from commandline 6.5.8 (have not tried the newest pgp commandline) [2] from gnupg, using the command: gpg --enarmor filename -----BEGIN PGP ARMORED FILE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Use "gpg --dearmor" for unpacking YXJtb3JlZCBmaWxl =qvGS -----END PGP ARMORED FILE----- [3] from gnupg, using the command: gpg -a --store filename -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: armored with timestamp included owFbI53EqV+kn5imV1JR4nIuTC6xKDe/KDVFIS0zJxUA =4HLX -----END PGP MESSAGE----- now, each of these 3 examples fit the general description of " - The ASCII Armored data " listed in 6.2 under the paragraph: "Forming ASCII Armor" the header "BEGIN PGP MESSAGE" is described as "Used for signed, encrypted, or compressed files." the above examples would technically fit under 'compressed files' (even if compression is 0 ) one unusual feature in all three examples, is that the line of armored message block is less than 64 characters. is there a minimum length to a line of pgp armor? (and if so, should this type of armored file be padded to that minimum length?) [really a 'nit', as it would occur only in extremely short files such as a .txt of a few words, and would then just be quoted as part of the inline message, and not armored anyway, but am asking because am curious if there is a minimum line length for pgp armor or not] and should this type of message be listed anywhere in the rfc as an open-pgp object? (n.b. some implementations, especially front-ends, have a little difficulty dealing with this type of message, as they expect either a signed or encrypted armored message, so it might be helpful to alert implementors about this type, and allow for simple de-armoring and saving the original file) vedaal Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PHql33025928; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PHql39025927; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:52:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [217.69.77.222]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PHqh7M025892 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wk@gnupg.org) Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1G5RDP-0007EO-Al for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:01:07 +0200 Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian)) id 1G5QyH-0007Ss-7g; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:45:29 +0200 From: Werner Koch <wk@gnupg.org> To: <vedaal@hush.com> Cc: <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Subject: Re: Encrypted Integrity Protected Data Packet, and MDC packet References: <200607251618.k6PGIqFm061988@mailserver3.hushmail.com> Organisation: g10 Code GmbH OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk@g10code.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:45:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200607251618.k6PGIqFm061988@mailserver3.hushmail.com> (vedaal@hush.com's message of "Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:18:51 -0400") Message-ID: <87irllo9xi.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:18, vedaal@hush.com said: > it assumes that the hash used in these packets, is SHA-1 > > is this a 'MUST', Yes. To avoid rollback attacks. Salam-Shalom, Werner Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PHeSNE022496; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PHeS7I022495; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from finney.org (226-132.adsl2.netlojix.net [207.71.226.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PHePNs022474 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:40:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hal@finney.org) Received: by finney.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 41F7F57FD2; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org, vedaal@hush.com Subject: Re: Encrypted Integrity Protected Data Packet, and MDC packet Message-Id: <20060725163409.41F7F57FD2@finney.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: hal@finney.org ("Hal Finney") Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> > in rfc 2440 bis-18, > > the way that the symmetric integrity protected data packet, and mdc > packets are described, (sections 5.13, 5.14), > > it assumes that the hash used in these packets, is SHA-1 > > is this a 'MUST', > or can any open-pgp hash be used? It is a MUST. Only SHA-1 may be used there. Hal Finney Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PGIufU098988; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6PGIu35098987; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.135]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6PGIsWE098975 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:18:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vedaal@hush.com) Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (localhost.hushmail.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CF5D1A32A1 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver3.hushmail.com (mailserver3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.20]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by mailserver3.hushmail.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id k6PGIqFm061988 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:18:52 -0400 (GMT) (envelope-from vedaal@hush.com) Message-Id: <200607251618.k6PGIqFm061988@mailserver3.hushmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:18:51 -0400 To: <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Cc: Subject: Encrypted Integrity Protected Data Packet, and MDC packet From: <vedaal@hush.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> in rfc 2440 bis-18, the way that the symmetric integrity protected data packet, and mdc packets are described, (sections 5.13, 5.14), it assumes that the hash used in these packets, is SHA-1 is this a 'MUST', or can any open-pgp hash be used? vedaal Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6OLuFnJ092926; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6OLuFsS092925; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [63.73.97.162]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6OLuEqO092902 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [63.73.97.166]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FDF2033D2 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.251.255.205] ([63.251.255.205]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20060720204525.310F3DA82E@mailserver8.hushmail.com> References: <20060720204525.310F3DA82E@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <C9B8B971-CE98-4CCB-B4E5-783314FCBB41@callas.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:56:06 -0700 To: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On 20 Jul 2006, at 1:45 PM, <vedaal@hush.com> <vedaal@hush.com> wrote: > a minor issue, > is that there for some objects, there is no 'generic' OpenPGP > object form that is identical for all OpenPGP implementations, > (there is only a more generalized form of the packet types, > sequence, etc.) > > the actual final form of the openPGP object varies somewhat with > the implementation, > (although each implementation can work with the forms of the > other), > > > an example of this, > would be a message encrypted to Alice's v4 RSA key: > > in PGP, > the message block armor begins with 'qA' > > in GnuPG, > the same message encrypted to the same key, > begins with 'hQ' > Forgive me for agreeing differently. :-) In the case that you give, the difference is that PGP uses a marker packet and GnuPG doesn't. What you need to document is the existence of the marker packet. You might do it by creating one with implementation X and the other with Y, but the difference is the marker packet. Similarly, we ought to give an example of different length types, old/ new header, and so on. Those, however, might not track systems. (I just put in a note in the PGP bug database that says PGP should consider not doing marker packets.) > it might be useful to list both variations as examples > of the discretionary leeway available to implementors, > and how they can leave little telltale signs that distinguish > their own implementations, > as long as the essentials of intercompatibility are preserved > > > in order to not 'overdo' the trivia, > i can start with a tentative list of the example types, > and then have people suggest either addtions or deletions from the > list > Yes, that's all part of the OpenPGP Bestiary, as I've been calling it. Jon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6O4tucn011257; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6O4tu5C011256; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from brandenburg.com (201-255-101-254.mrse.com.ar [201.255.101.254] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6O4rlmX010613 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:55:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dcrocker@brandenburg.com) Message-Id: <200607240455.k6O4rlmX010613@balder-227.proper.com> From: dcrocker@brandenburg.com To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Report Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:55:58 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_00625145.0F0299F1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_00625145.0F0299F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was undeliverable due to the following reason(s): Your message could not be delivered because the destination computer was not reachable within the allowed queue period. The amount of time a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura- tion parameters. Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not have a mail system running right now. Your message was not delivered within 3 days: Host 68.177.193.58 is not responding. 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ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC5zY3JQSwUGAAAAAAEAAQAJAQAAuXEAAAAA ------=_NextPart_000_0010_00625145.0F0299F1-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6LATsCR047013; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6LATsd4047012; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6LATrlb046945 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 15539395A; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:29:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:29:44 +0200 To: vedaal@hush.com Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Message-ID: <20060721102944.GA7277@epointsystem.org> References: <20060720204525.310F3DA82E@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060720204525.310F3DA82E@mailserver8.hushmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 04:45:24PM -0400, vedaal@hush.com wrote: > i would be interested in preparing a comprehesive collection of=20 > examples, Me too. Actually, I think an RFC with examples for interoperability tests is very much needed. Having implemented most of RFC2440, I must say that interoperability testing and preparing examples takes most of development t= ime. --=20 Daniel --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRMCsmK6pEulQFnIMAQKf/wYAiqKEK4HscJQwAQitjgYsTgBbOWx73/IP PhTZkoWqu05OM9S2r8GxbANSm6ZwwJcw5eW8+Vi0FFPOJ6SuLVZbsftRHiNji3Ul e97I/D4hUAmPaMMy6vl0ls5rZAwAtD4roN6RR8xQpHM5TbFOazRko9IMfWrjuK5j a0yp1SQCp5/ZL01rk6IiiCIBrF1F/+TYu2YlP09sCfF5srkf2DO30T0RlhIz+vC5 QbJm6rcUeFAqxfrWk7zamhCrYUekHOCc =KgHg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6KKjV2M019928; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6KKjVxp019927; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.135]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6KKjSti019873 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vedaal@hush.com) Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (localhost.hushmail.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3158BA3230 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver8.hushmail.com (mailserver8.hushmail.com [65.39.178.61]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailserver8.hushmail.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 310F3DA82E; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:45:24 -0400 To: <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Cc: Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary From: <vedaal@hush.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060720204525.310F3DA82E@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:44:13 -0400 Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> wrote: >On the other hand, I think there *is* work still on the table, and >there are still people interested in doing it. .... >Here is an incomplete list of things that I think are still on the >table: .... >* Interop cookbook. It would be desirable to have an RFC with >examples of OpenPGP objects as a help to implementers. This would >have, for example, an Alice key, a Bob key, and examples of >different other objects. A message encrypted to Alice and signed by >Bob with MDC packet, another with non-MDC; Bob's key signed by Alice; >and so on. i would be interested in preparing a comprehesive collection of examples, a minor issue, is that there for some objects, there is no 'generic' OpenPGP object form that is identical for all OpenPGP implementations, (there is only a more generalized form of the packet types, sequence, etc.) the actual final form of the openPGP object varies somewhat with the implementation, (although each implementation can work with the forms of the other), an example of this, would be a message encrypted to Alice's v4 RSA key: in PGP, the message block armor begins with 'qA' in GnuPG, the same message encrypted to the same key, begins with 'hQ' it might be useful to list both variations as examples of the discretionary leeway available to implementors, and how they can leave little telltale signs that distinguish their own implementations, as long as the essentials of intercompatibility are preserved in order to not 'overdo' the trivia, i can start with a tentative list of the example types, and then have people suggest either addtions or deletions from the list vedaal Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6KIXH9V081171; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6KIXHJP081170; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [63.73.97.162]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6KIXC1H081115 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [63.73.97.166]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBB01F932E for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.240.32.214] ([208.54.76.46]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:07 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <200607191802.17107.brian@braverock.com> References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> <20060719210824.GM13108@lavazza.does-not-exist.org> <200607191802.17107.brian@braverock.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <42473FF0-BB0D-4CB9-8ECC-E810AD9C7E86@callas.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP/MIME changes Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:33:09 -0700 To: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On 19 Jul 2006, at 4:02 PM, Brian G. Peterson wrote: > >> On 2006-07-19 13:44:13 -0700, Jon Callas wrote: >>> * OpenPGP/MIME work. We have issues with OpenPGP/MIME and >>> interoperability with it. ... At the other end of the scale, >>> tidying up OpenPGP/MIME means coming up with a profile of an >>> existing standard. > > On Wednesday 19 July 2006 16:08, Thomas Roessler wrote: >> So, the current OpenPGP/MIME spec is already relatively strict >> and actually takes away some of the degrees of freedom that the >> original PGP/MIME left open. Would you care to elaborate a bit >> more about what points you'd like to clean up? > > Look back a ways in the archives to the various tabled discussions on > OpenPGP/MIME and the other variants (inline/partitioned) for email. I > remember significant issues being discussed around offline signature > verification on binary attachments, signatures on signatures (chain of > evidence), and interoperability issues on the layout of MIME parts. > > All of the issues that I mentioned above from memory are issues > that are > directly important to me that I would be participating heavily in > working > on fixing. This working group correctly tabled a lively discussion on > some of these issues over a year ago to focus on getting 2440bis > finalized. Thanks. That's basically it. I wrote down all the things I could remember that we'd said we'd talk about later. It's quite possible or even reasonable that for any (or all) of these that the WG would decide we're not interested, or that an individual submission is just fine. Jon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6K3F1Nl032743; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:15:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6K3F1We032740; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:15:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.190.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6K3Ex4k032686 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:15:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz) Received: from localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DC8349EA; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:54 +1200 (NZST) Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31273-25; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:54 +1200 (NZST) Received: from iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz (iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.33.152]) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7500534757; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:53 +1200 (NZST) Received: from medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz (medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.34.33]) by iris.cs.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF8C3774F; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:53 +1200 (NZST) Received: from pgut001 by medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1G3P05-0006Uc-00; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:57 +1200 From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org, jon@callas.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary In-Reply-To: <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> Message-Id: <E1G3P05-0006Uc-00@medusa01.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:14:57 +1200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> writes: >On the one hand, it wouldn't be so bad for us. Closing a working group is not >a sign of failure. Failure is being the committee that never ends That would be PKIX then :-). Peter. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JNJH79068329; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JNJH2s068328; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.reptiles.org (www.reptiles.org [198.96.119.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JNJGc0068313 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cat@reptiles.org) Received: from www.reptiles.org([198.96.119.1] port=2502) (1483 bytes) by mail.reptiles.org([198.96.119.1] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (sender: <cat@reptiles.org>) id <m1G3LJo-00Bw67C@mail.reptiles.org> for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; (dest:remote)(R=bind_hosts)(T=inet_zone_bind_smtp) Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:19:04 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.118 2004-May-31 #3 built 2004-Oct-14) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:19:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> X-X-Sender: gwen@skink.reptiles.org Reply-To: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> To: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> cc: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary In-Reply-To: <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> Message-ID: <20060719191752.C23092@skink.reptiles.org> References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Jon Callas wrote: > The real message for us, I believe, is that we shouldn't request a meeting > unless we know that it is needed. If only nine people are going to show up, > then we shouldn't have the meeting. I'd also be curious to know how closely poor attendance and scheduled time correlate. The 18:50 - 19:50 slot didn't seem well attended for most groups. cheers! ========================================================================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JN2hpt064368; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JN2hF3064367; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ethos.braverock.com (ethos.braverock.com [66.92.142.163] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JN2feE064353 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:02:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@braverock.com) Received: from [10.23.1.100] (dsl017-021-008.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.21.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by ethos.braverock.com (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6JN2NTc029625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:02:29 -0500 From: "Brian G. Peterson" <brian@braverock.com> To: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP/MIME changes Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:02:16 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> <20060719210824.GM13108@lavazza.does-not-exist.org> In-Reply-To: <20060719210824.GM13108@lavazza.does-not-exist.org> Cc: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org>, Thomas Roessler <roessler@does-not-exist.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200607191802.17107.brian@braverock.com> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> > On 2006-07-19 13:44:13 -0700, Jon Callas wrote: > > * OpenPGP/MIME work. We have issues with OpenPGP/MIME and > > interoperability with it. ... At the other end of the scale, > > tidying up OpenPGP/MIME means coming up with a profile of an > > existing standard. On Wednesday 19 July 2006 16:08, Thomas Roessler wrote: > So, the current OpenPGP/MIME spec is already relatively strict > and actually takes away some of the degrees of freedom that the > original PGP/MIME left open. Would you care to elaborate a bit > more about what points you'd like to clean up? Look back a ways in the archives to the various tabled discussions on OpenPGP/MIME and the other variants (inline/partitioned) for email. I remember significant issues being discussed around offline signature verification on binary attachments, signatures on signatures (chain of evidence), and interoperability issues on the layout of MIME parts. All of the issues that I mentioned above from memory are issues that are directly important to me that I would be participating heavily in working on fixing. This working group correctly tabled a lively discussion on some of these issues over a year ago to focus on getting 2440bis finalized. Regards, - Brian Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JMFM32051346; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:15:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JMFM3m051344; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:15:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kamino.does-not-exist.org (kamino.does-not-exist.org [217.160.221.198]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JMFKmt051318 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:15:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roessler@does-not-exist.org) Received: from lavazza.does-not-exist.org (64-85-59-129.ip.van.radiant.net [64.85.59.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by kamino.does-not-exist.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E111935C4; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:15:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from roessler by lavazza.does-not-exist.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from <roessler@does-not-exist.org>) id 1G3JHN-0005wO-QQ; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:08:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:08:24 -0700 From: Thomas Roessler <roessler@does-not-exist.org> To: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> Cc: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Message-ID: <20060719210824.GM13108@lavazza.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org>, OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.12 (2006-07-18) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6JMFLmt051328 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On 2006-07-19 13:44:13 -0700, Jon Callas wrote: > * OpenPGP/MIME work. We have issues with OpenPGP/MIME and > interoperability with it. ... At the other end of the scale, > tidying up OpenPGP/MIME means coming up with a profile of an > existing standard. So, the current OpenPGP/MIME spec is already relatively strict and actually takes away some of the degrees of freedom that the original PGP/MIME left open. Would you care to elaborate a bit more about what points you'd like to clean up? Thanks, -- Thomas Roessler · Personal soap box at <http://log.does-not-exist.org/>. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JKiGml024578; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6JKiGGf024577; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from merrymeet.com (merrymeet.com [63.73.97.162]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6JKiFB8024563 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jon@callas.org) Received: from keys.merrymeet.com (keys.merrymeet.com [63.73.97.166]) (Authenticated sender: jon) by merrymeet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D791F7099 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.30.1.144] ([206.165.17.2]) by keys.merrymeet.com (PGP Universal service); Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:06 -0700 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by keys.merrymeet.com on Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <CCFC4799-4C83-44D5-8FC2-1F010EC75D1C@callas.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jon Callas <jon@callas.org> Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:44:13 -0700 To: OpenPGP <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Let me talk out of both sides of my mouth for a moment. On the one hand, it wouldn't be so bad for us. Closing a working group is not a sign of failure. Failure is being the committee that never ends, and that's a sort of Sartrean, No Exit sort of failure. If we don't have work to do, it makes sense to move on and reconstitute the group later when we need to. On the other hand, I think there *is* work still on the table, and there are still people interested in doing it. Additionally, this is a reasonably coherent group. In general, we pretty much agree on direction, even not if in specific details. If anything, we just need to make sure that we genuinely have a *need* for an in-person meeting. It is a sign of success, not failure, to be able to get all the working group's work done on the mailing list. There is a tendency in the IETF to request in-person meetings with progress, when it could be argued that the opposite is true, that the need for a meeting is an indication of bad communication in email. The real message for us, I believe, is that we shouldn't request a meeting unless we know that it is needed. If only nine people are going to show up, then we shouldn't have the meeting. Here is an incomplete list of things that I think are still on the table: * PFS draft. I want to see this get to RFC. I have always liked it, and think it is useful for a lot of non-email applications. * Additions for symmetric ciphers. There are a number of symmetric ciphers that people have desires for. Primarily, these are national ciphers like Camillia, SEED, and GOST. An advantage of OpenPGP is that it is easy to make ciphers optional even in implementation. The cipher selection algorithm makes it easy for those who want to ignore such ciphers to do so. There is a small amount of hair in this in the some systems may want hash algorithms as well. * V5 keys. Many of us have discussed updating the basic public key format. I'm possibly guilty of starting this. I'm genuinely torn, however, because while I would like to tidy some things up, when I ask myself if I'd toss out my existing key for a new one, the answer is a resounding no. The biggest argument I can think of against it is that it means more for a minimal implementation to implement. * Data encryption update. It would be nice to update the symmetric encryption packet. We could upgrade the MDC into an HMAC. We could consider shifting to CBC mode. Like V5 keys, it's easy to argue against this on grounds of minimalism. * Algorithm migration. Should we do more to encourage migration from SHA-1 to SHA-256? Should we encourage migration from 3DES to AES? * Interop cookbook. It would be desirable to have an RFC with examples of OpenPGP objects as a help to implementers. This would have, for example, an Alice key, a Bob key, and examples of different other objects. A message encrypted to Alice and signed by Bob with MDC packet, another with non-MDC; Bob's key signed by Alice; and so on. * OpenPGP/MIME work. We have issues with OpenPGP/MIME and interoperability with it. Note that this isn't a uniquely OpenPGP problem. The problem is in security multiparts in general. If you take a multipart message and want to add encryption, signing, or both to it, there is no good way to know how to construct the parts so that you'll get the thing to render correctly when you're done. We could easily punt this, but we could just as easily tackle it. To sum up, I think we need to go through this list (and see what else someone might have) and use that as a metric. Some of the tasks I have there lend themselves neatly to individual submissions. Adding in a new cipher can be as simple as getting a number assigned. That's a perfect three-page RFC. At the other end of the scale, tidying up OpenPGP/MIME means coming up with a profile of an existing standard. Jon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HKXBm3017083; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:33:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HKXBJs017082; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:33:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HKXAA3017075 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:33:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.60.132.70]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k6HKX8k04895 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:33:09 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6HKZ3rQ031412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:35:03 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6HKX2Mg028721 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:33:02 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id k6HKX2mT028720 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:33:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:33:02 -0400 From: David Shaw <dshaw@jabberwocky.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Timestamp and 3rd party sig Message-ID: <20060717203302.GB28497@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <20060716183840.GB4342@epointsystem.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060716183840.GB4342@epointsystem.org> OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-2006-07-14 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 08:38:41PM +0200, Daniel A. Nagy wrote: > In his message on Feb 17, 2005 > http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/msg09179.html > Rick van Rein raised two important questions only one of which has been > addressed (by W. Koch). Rick proposed changes to the definiton of timestamp > signatures (sig type 0x40) which have been neither rejected nor accepted. In > fact, they have not even been discussed. I think it is too late to suggest changes to 2440bis at this point. The document has gone past last call and is now in the hands of the editor. With regards to the 0x40 timestamp signature, Hal noted that PGP would likely not verify it. I can vouch that GnuPG will not verify it either ("unknown signature class"). > Another question that arises in the context of timestamps whether it is > worth defining another type (say, 0x41) for timestamping canonical text > documents analogously to the distinction between 0x00 and 0x01? My personal > opinion is that it is definitely worth doing. Thus, I would propose the > following wording: > > 0x40: Timestamp signature of a binary document. > The intention of this signature is to accurately record the time > at which the timestamped binary data was seen by the timestamp-signing > party. > > 0x41: Timestamp signature of a canonical text document. > The intention of this signature is to accurately record the time > at which the timestampe text was seen by the timestamp-signing > party. The signature is calculated over the text data with its > line endings converted to <CR><LF>. 0x40 has a long history. It was actually mentioned in RFC-1991, but marked as not yet implemented. The thing that was the 1991 0x40 evolved into the 2440bis 0x50. To my knowledge, 0x40 has never been implemented. In terms of the format, 2440bis more or less indicates that (like 0x50), 0x40 is a signature over a signature, not over data, binary or otherwise. I think if you're looking for a timestamp signature, 0x40 isn't the way to do it. A notation subpacket would seem to be a much more usable method. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HGcZtX055936; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6HGcZWV055935; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from finney.org (226-132.adsl2.netlojix.net [207.71.226.132]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6HGcY4O055928 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hal@finney.org) Received: by finney.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 771E657FD1; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Timestamp and 3rd party sig Message-Id: <20060717153254.771E657FD1@finney.org> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: hal@finney.org ("Hal Finney") Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Daniel A. Nagy writes: > Since I am currently implementing an OpenPGP compliant timestamping service, > I would like to solicit opinions on the issue even without suggesting > immediate changes to the standard. In particular, I would like to know how > various implementations treat 0x40 signatures when encountering them during > signature verification? Looking at the commercial PGP parsing code, it doesn't look like it will handle these signatures very well if they occur in a document. In a key ring I think it will just ignore them, but in a document it only expects type 0 or 1 signatures. Anything above that is assumed to be a key signature, in the document parsing code, and it will divert to the key signature parsing code; but it does not expect to find a key signature except following other key ring packets. So it will trigger a parsing error and the message will be rejected as malformed. This code has worked like this for a number of years so there is probably a substantial installed base. Hal Finney Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6H4vHfA087806; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6H4vHSG087805; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sea.h2np.net (sea.h2np.net [220.110.1.194]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6H4vGEq087783 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:57:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hironobu@h2np.net) Received: from lax.h2np.net ([220.110.1.195] helo=mail.h2np.net) by sea.h2np.net with esmtp (H2NP Email Service (Exim 3.35)) id 1G2LAO-0005gV-00; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:57:13 +0900 From: Hironobu SUZUKI <hironobu@h2np.net> To: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:24:26 -0400." <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:57:11 +0900 Message-Id: <E1G2LAO-0005gV-00@sea.h2np.net> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> > Well, may I ask that all of those on this list that are actually > actively reviewing drafts please speak up now and let me know. Feel > free to let me know off-list if you prefer. Then I can show Sam > that we've got a lot of active reviewers. I've been reviewing draft. It need for my OpenPKSD keyserver development, specially packets structure, charset and others. --- Hironobu SUZUKI (From Japan) E-Mail: hironobu @ h2np.net URL: http://h2np.net Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6H133Um025555; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:03:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6H133MU025554; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:03:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from foobar.cs.jhu.edu (foobar.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6H1327Z025545 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:03:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dshaw@jabberwocky.com) Received: from walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.60.132.70]) by foobar.cs.jhu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k6H12xk31085 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:03:00 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [172.24.84.28]) by walrus.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6H14o5X024696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:04:50 -0400 Received: from grover.jabberwocky.com (grover.jabberwocky.com [127.0.0.1]) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6H12q3t026583 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:02:52 -0400 Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by grover.jabberwocky.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id k6H12qBM026582 for ietf-openpgp@imc.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:02:52 -0400 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:02:52 -0400 From: David Shaw <dshaw@jabberwocky.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Message-ID: <20060717010252.GA25916@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> <20060715103004.O23092@skink.reptiles.org> <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> OpenPGP: id=99242560; url=http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-2006-07-14 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 10:24:26AM -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: > Well, may I ask that all of those on this list that are actually > actively reviewing drafts please speak up now and let me know. Feel > free to let me know off-list if you prefer. Then I can show Sam that > we've got a lot of active reviewers. I actively review all drafts and comment on them, and plan to keep on doing that. Also count me in with regards to an interop grilloff. David Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GNu5ZI008718; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:56:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GNu5kR008712; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:56:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from tinlc.com (aplushosting.com [72.18.206.65] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GNu4ix008684 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from greg@turnstep.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by tinlc.com with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <greg@turnstep.com>) id 1G2GUJ-0001Go-8Y; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:57:27 -0500 From: "Greg Sabino Mullane" <greg@turnstep.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: Timestamp and 3rd party sig X-PGP-Key: 2529 DF6A B8F7 9407 E944 45B4 BC9B 9067 1496 4AC8 X-Request-PGP: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 In-Reply-To: <20060716183840.GB4342@epointsystem.org> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:57:27 -0000 X-Mailer: JoyMail 2.01 Message-ID: <8bb068bdf3c8a4a8b8b4479dbc274356@biglumber.com> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Well, may I ask that all of those on this list that are actually > actively reviewing drafts please speak up now and let me know. Feel > free to let me know off-list if you prefer. Then I can show Sam that > we've got a lot of active reviewers. Count me as one. > I should also note that while it's okay to assume "silence implies > consent", it would be nice for our reviewers to periodically say "I've > read this and I have found no issues." I'm mostly in that camp, with a little bit of "while I *could* comment on that, it's such a minor thing, no sense in stretching out this process any longer." Perhaps I'll say "I've read this and have no comments at this point in time." :) - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200607161952 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD4DBQFEutHIvJuQZxSWSsgRAi52AJjm1iV6mQV8/ZLeM6lA/ThUPg8QAKCFTzMM Kw/w959GFghIDmYYgu+THQ== =7gYQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GIcnNv026601; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:38:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GIcn6E026600; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:38:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GIclsr026567 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:38:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 71B0E17FD; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:38:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:38:41 +0200 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Cc: klao@cs.elte.hu Subject: Re: Timestamp and 3rd party sig Message-ID: <20060716183840.GB4342@epointsystem.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In his message on Feb 17, 2005 http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/msg09179.html Rick van Rein raised two important questions only one of which has been addressed (by W. Koch). Rick proposed changes to the definiton of timestamp signatures (sig type 0x40) which have been neither rejected nor accepted. In fact, they have not even been discussed. I would suggest to revisit his suggestion as it clarifies the correct use of this potentially very useful signature type. I do agree with explicitly stating the purpose of the signature as in all other cases: 0x40: Timestamp signature. The intention of this signature is to accurately record the time at which the timestamped data was seen by the timestamp-signing party. While I see the wording of the additional paragraph a bit clumsy and perhaps overly specific, some explanation about the calculation of the signature would be helpful. Before proceeding with that, however, I would like to ask if there are any implementations that constrain how such signatures should be constructed and verified? Another question that arises in the context of timestamps whether it is worth defining another type (say, 0x41) for timestamping canonical text documents analogously to the distinction between 0x00 and 0x01? My personal opinion is that it is definitely worth doing. Thus, I would propose the following wording: 0x40: Timestamp signature of a binary document. The intention of this signature is to accurately record the time at which the timestamped binary data was seen by the timestamp-sign= ing party. 0x41: Timestamp signature of a canonical text document. The intention of this signature is to accurately record the time at which the timestampe text was seen by the timestamp-signing party. The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to <CR><LF>. Since I am currently implementing an OpenPGP compliant timestamping service, I would like to solicit opinions on the issue even without suggesting immediate changes to the standard. In particular, I would like to know how various implementations treat 0x40 signatures when encountering them during signature verification? Thank you in advance, --=20 Daniel A. Nagy --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRLqHsK6pEulQFnIMAQI4vAX5AY4oZZOb1J6aE9BcDkodWsp5AIb0FNm3 ifdsq8TlkKTRo4mMHir3CDwCa3wIjV6ECzQo0OkPGNFSoiNPzT6qq4Z821bxvNQC KkXcW44hl3iA/t72TbI25G1Ix9FpQ/AQxQoVoYJFDo/1cT5i1yEv2pJ5bj5ld9Bv iqQWq2+uvDdG0hDjUh63qWMd0crFkclkdgL7WV8/voeniwzlp3G41WeFvoz0VYvL 5q/0pfbFCS8t8T6G+wXHJUw6VSbQMECK =/8eE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GIbq0W026352; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:37:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GIbqRq026351; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:37:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com (kerckhoffs.g10code.com [217.69.77.222]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GIbpSP026331 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:37:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wk@gnupg.org) Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian)) id 1G2Bd6-0006IU-KG for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:46:12 +0200 Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian)) id 1G2BOP-0003LX-I7; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:31:01 +0200 From: Werner Koch <wk@gnupg.org> To: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> Cc: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org>, "Brian G. Peterson" <brian@braverock.com>, ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> <20060715103004.O23092@skink.reptiles.org> <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> Organisation: g10 Code GmbH OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk@g10code.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:31:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> (Derek Atkins's message of "Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:24:26 -0400") Message-ID: <87hd1hs8pm.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:24, Derek Atkins said: > Well, may I ask that all of those on this list that are actually > actively reviewing drafts please speak up now and let me know. Feel I have been doing this for 8 years or so and will continue to read and comment on drafts. Shalom-Salam, Werner Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GEOZ3t059175; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:24:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6GEOZG1059173; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:24:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ihtfp.org (MAIL.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.6]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6GEOWpU059149 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from cliodev.pgp.com (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cliodev.ihtfp.com", Issuer "IHTFP Consulting Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mail.ihtfp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B391BD8387; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from warlord@localhost) by cliodev.pgp.com (8.13.6/8.13.1/Submit) id k6GEOQUQ017089; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:24:26 -0400 From: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> To: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> Cc: "Brian G. Peterson" <brian@braverock.com>, ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> <20060715103004.O23092@skink.reptiles.org> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:24:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20060715103004.O23092@skink.reptiles.org> (Cat Okita's message of "Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: <sjmr70lbpb9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6GEOXpU059152 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> writes: > On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Brian G. Peterson wrote: >> On Saturday 15 July 2006 08:12, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> He means 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the >>> drafts.  Basically, the question is:  how many people do we >>> have reading and commenting on drafts.  Even a comment "I have >>> read this draft and see nothing wrong with it" counts.  But >>> he wants to know that we have at least 10 people willing to >>> do that in order to keep moving forward. > > You can certainly count me in the lot of folks that are reading and > saying nothing (in the 'silence implies consent' manner). Well, may I ask that all of those on this list that are actually actively reviewing drafts please speak up now and let me know. Feel free to let me know off-list if you prefer. Then I can show Sam that we've got a lot of active reviewers. I should also note that while it's okay to assume "silence implies consent", it would be nice for our reviewers to periodically say "I've read this and I have found no issues." > cheers! -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FEWOUL085231; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:32:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6FEWOWv085230; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:32:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.reptiles.org (www.reptiles.org [198.96.119.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FEWOge085207 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:32:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cat@reptiles.org) Received: from mail.reptiles.org([198.96.119.1] port=2419) (2222 bytes) by mail.reptiles.org([198.96.119.1] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (sender: <cat@reptiles.org>) id <m1G1lBq-00Bw2NC@mail.reptiles.org> for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; (dest:remote)(R=bind_hosts)(T=inet_zone_bind_smtp) Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.118 2004-May-31 #3 built 2004-Oct-14) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> X-X-Sender: gwen@skink.reptiles.org Reply-To: Cat Okita <cat@reptiles.org> To: "Brian G. Peterson" <brian@braverock.com> cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary In-Reply-To: <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> Message-ID: <20060715103004.O23092@skink.reptiles.org> References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1810367625-1152973938=:23092" Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1810367625-1152973938=:23092 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Brian G. Peterson wrote: > On Saturday 15 July 2006 08:12, Derek Atkins wrote: >> He means 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the >> drafts. =A0Basically, the question is: =A0how many people do we >> have reading and commenting on drafts. =A0Even a comment "I have >> read this draft and see nothing wrong with it" counts. =A0But >> he wants to know that we have at least 10 people willing to >> do that in order to keep moving forward. You can certainly count me in the lot of folks that are reading and saying nothing (in the 'silence implies consent' manner). cheers! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." --0-1810367625-1152973938=:23092-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDph1i074828; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:51:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6FDphvV074827; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:51:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDpgu2074812 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:51:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE2A1E8070; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:51:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44B8F1E6.4050406@systemics.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:47:18 +0200 From: Ian G <iang@systemics.com> Organization: http://financialcryptography.com/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060317) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> In-Reply-To: <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Derek Atkins wrote: > Ian G <iang@systemics.com> writes: > >>> in two weeks. He asked if we really still have enough interest to >>> remain a working group. In particular do we have 10 reviewers working >>> on the draft. The Chair was tasked with asking the mailing list and >>> seeing how many reviewers we really have. If we do not have >>> sufficient quorum then Sam will shut us down and ask that any future >>> work be submitted as individual drafts (including taking 2440bis(ter?) >>> to Draft Standard). >> >> Does he mean, 10 people on the mailing list >> that comment on the draft? That should be >> easy to show. > > He means 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the > drafts. Basically, the question is: how many people do we > have reading and commenting on drafts. Even a comment "I have > read this draft and see nothing wrong with it" counts. But > he wants to know that we have at least 10 people willing to > do that in order to keep moving forward. Oh, I see. Easily. See, there are many aspects to the draft, and many people don't comment on all the stuff. I for example will comment on the cleartext signature stuff because it is critical to my work but I won't be so easily tempted to comment on the arcania of the key id extensions, because I strip the keys down to minimum in my app. < http://iang.org/papers/ricardian_contract.html > Whereas someone like Hal (just picking randomly here) is more interested in the deeper crypto and security puzzles within. E.g., Hal was very involved in that PGP Inc announcement last year of a security weakness, which was great work, but to me was outside scope. I suppose we might not see 10 people in any one debate. In the sum of all debates, there are in excess of 10 people. Also, frankly, I will say that one of the things that slows me down from getting "vocally interested" in it is that it has gone on too long - I bite my toungue because more debate is more slow. I'd rather the thing moved into draft status *now* or preferably 6 years ago than argue about something of marginal importance. My silence should not be seen as lack of support but support for forward movement :) I guess I disagree with the question then. There are more than 10 people here, but in my eyes, there may be less than 10 "reviewers" and that is good, because the time for review is over. What can we do to make it ID? I don't want more review, I approve personally as it is, flaws and all. All just IMHO, not meant to represent anyone else's opinions. >> There are probably 10 implementations out >> there... Of the implementations I know: > [snip] > > I'm not sure that the number of implementations necessarily maps > to the number of people who are reviewing the drafts. It SHOULD > map, but doesn't necessarily map. There is always a group that "free-ride" and don't participate in the writing of the doc. That's ok, they participate in other ways by spreading the standard, and they accept the results they are given. iang Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDevBu072085; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6FDevrn072084; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ethos.braverock.com (ethos.braverock.com [66.92.142.163] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDeumA072075 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brian@braverock.com) Received: from [10.23.1.100] (dsl017-021-008.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.21.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by ethos.braverock.com (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k6FDeoAl015957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 08:40:56 -0500 From: "Brian G. Peterson" <brian@braverock.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 08:40:45 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> In-Reply-To: <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200607150840.45173.brian@braverock.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id k6FDevmA072079 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Saturday 15 July 2006 08:12, Derek Atkins wrote: > He means 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the > drafts. Basically, the question is: how many people do we > have reading and commenting on drafts. Even a comment "I have > read this draft and see nothing wrong with it" counts. But > he wants to know that we have at least 10 people willing to > do that in order to keep moving forward. I think we have more than 10 people who regularly comment on changes to the draft. A quick review of the mailing list archive should validate that, but there seem to be more than 10 names that I recognize commenting on 2440bis. (and count me as one of them ;) Regards, - Brian Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDCE52064152; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:12:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6FDCEc4064151; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:12:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ihtfp.org (MAIL.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.6]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6FDCDb4064145 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:12:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from cliodev.pgp.com (CLIODEV.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cliodev.ihtfp.com", Issuer "IHTFP Consulting Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mail.ihtfp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC7CBD8382; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from warlord@localhost) by cliodev.pgp.com (8.13.6/8.13.1/Submit) id k6FDCAcl001685; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:12:10 -0400 From: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> To: Ian G <iang@systemics.com> Cc: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:12:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> (Ian G.'s message of "Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:02:42 +0200") Message-ID: <sjmejwnc8r9.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Ian G <iang@systemics.com> writes: >> in two weeks. He asked if we really still have enough interest to >> remain a working group. In particular do we have 10 reviewers working >> on the draft. The Chair was tasked with asking the mailing list and >> seeing how many reviewers we really have. If we do not have >> sufficient quorum then Sam will shut us down and ask that any future >> work be submitted as individual drafts (including taking 2440bis(ter?) >> to Draft Standard). > > > Does he mean, 10 people on the mailing list > that comment on the draft? That should be > easy to show. He means 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the drafts. Basically, the question is: how many people do we have reading and commenting on drafts. Even a comment "I have read this draft and see nothing wrong with it" counts. But he wants to know that we have at least 10 people willing to do that in order to keep moving forward. > I can understand there not being more than > 10 people showing up to the meeting. It's > very expensive to attend those things, and > this has been going on for a decade or so. Yeah, I understand. > There are probably 10 implementations out > there... Of the implementations I know: [snip] I'm not sure that the number of implementations necessarily maps to the number of people who are reviewing the drafts. It SHOULD map, but doesn't necessarily map. > (Thanks for the other comments, too). And thank you for your involvement. > iang -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6F5Fuew038759; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6F5FuKH038758; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.epointsystem.org (120.156-228-195.hosting.adatpark.hu [195.228.156.120]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6F5FtkW038732 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nagydani@epointsystem.org) Received: by mail.epointsystem.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F29ED3968; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:15:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:15:49 +0200 To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Message-ID: <20060715051549.GC11789@epointsystem.org> References: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="p2kqVDKq5asng8Dg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: nagydani@epointsystem.org (Daniel A. Nagy) Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> --p2kqVDKq5asng8Dg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is yet one more that I am aware of: mcrypt implements symmetric encryption and decryption, OpenPGP-style (among other things). Also, there is openCT, which is an OpenPGP C library on top of gcrypt. I think, it has not been maintained for a while, but it exists. Indeed, there are great many OpenPGP implementations. --=20 Daniel --p2kqVDKq5asng8Dg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iQDVAwUBRLh6Ba6pEulQFnIMAQJvYQYAnzPZa6QoJpbbO0+0LipLnl3d1NjXO3Tm eS6aAiFw3OKSmlMerY8GAvm1Yb6Vs1/+H87T0x+J8ij7PhDPag19gDMuEeLBXqPh le4Bs9jz0hRqGU9/8nokFswavtuVVo2YvcLKJZDb5ufv2xLmTcEAqnHn99PHheZC cWZIf0dSjhZm8ny9mJ/LMOyPgXQOMOt0lkwS4oAIPpZ+Lr5urCawEv9AtNzj9Gob Aym41IOrNDKtxKAYsH0crm6CH9v9Anv5 =SLHQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --p2kqVDKq5asng8Dg-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EHnbEm060275; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6EHnb6Y060274; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (smtp3.hushmail.com [65.39.178.135]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EHnaUx060268 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vedaal@hush.com) Received: from smtp3.hushmail.com (localhost.hushmail.com [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D0DAFA33CC for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver8.hushmail.com (mailserver8.hushmail.com [65.39.178.61]) by smtp3.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailserver8.hushmail.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 5A2F1DA820; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:49:33 -0400 To: <ietf-openpgp@imc.org> Cc: Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary From: <vedaal@hush.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060714174935.5A2F1DA820@mailserver8.hushmail.com> Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:02:42 -0400 Ian G <iang@systemics.com> wrote: >There are probably 10 implementations out >there... Of the implementations I know: > >Gpg, PGP Inc, >Cryptix, epointsystems, hushmail here are some others: Crypt::OpenPGP - Pure-Perl OpenPGP implementation http://www.stupidfool.org/perl/docs/perldoc/Crypt/OpenPGP.html 5 pgp products by this company: http://www.articsoft.com/products.htm filecrypt (4 pgp products) http://www.veridis.com/openpgp/en/index.asp another commercial one here: http://www.anidirect.com/products/encryption/edge.html p5-Crypt-OpenPGP http://www.freebsdsoftware.org/security/p5-Crypt-OpenPGP.html SharpPrivacy - OpenPGP for C# http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/sharpprivacy.asp?df=100&forumid=15 716&exp=0&select=519463 a list of members of open pgp alliance: http://www.openpgp.org/members/ Cryptocx v6 http://www.easybyte.com/products/cryptocx.html BPG: An OpenPGP Privacy Toolkit for NetB http://netbsd-soc.sourceforge.net/projects/bpg/ zendit, edge http://www.authora.com/ maybe the implementors of these programs, and other interested parties who may not be able to travel too far away, could attend future meetings by videoconferencing of some sort fwiw, not a day goes by where i don't use an open pgp product (besides hushmail ;-) ) for e-mail encryption, file encryption, etc. and am sure there are many others in similar circumstances, and we are all very happy that there is an open pgp standard that is by and large reasonably adhered to, and that we can all communicate securely please keep up the good work, and THANKS!!! vedaal Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EECX9Z001778; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6EECXw8001777; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (h1f54-net84db.lab.risq.net [132.219.31.84] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EECW8f001771 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 925B5E0079; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:12:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> To: Ian G <iang@systemics.com> Cc: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com>, saag@mit.edu, ietf-openpgp@imc.org, housley@vigilsec.com Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:12:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> (Ian G.'s message of "Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:02:42 +0200") Message-ID: <tsly7uwl1g4.fsf@cz.mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> >>>>> "Ian" == Ian G <iang@systemics.com> writes: Ian> Derek Atkins wrote: >> OpenPGP TUESDAY, July 11, 2006 1850-1950 Afternoon Session IV >> Ten people showed up for the meeting. Only one person was am >> implementor, and that was in the past (he's not an OpenPGP >> implementor anymore). 2440bis has been submitted to Sam and he >> will review it and act on it Ian> Sorry, who is Sam? Sam Hartman, the IESG member responsible for openpgp. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EE7AaB000372; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:07:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6EE7Aoo000371; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:07:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from www2.futureware.at ([217.19.43.211]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6EE78d7000337 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from iang@systemics.com) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www2.futureware.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F631E7754; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:07:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44B7A402.6070607@systemics.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:02:42 +0200 From: Ian G <iang@systemics.com> Organization: http://financialcryptography.com/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060317) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> Cc: saag@MIT.EDU, ietf-openpgp@imc.org, housley@vigilsec.com, hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: Re: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary References: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> In-Reply-To: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Derek Atkins wrote: > > OpenPGP > TUESDAY, July 11, 2006 > 1850-1950 Afternoon Session IV > > Ten people showed up for the meeting. Only one person was am > implementor, and that was in the past (he's not an OpenPGP implementor > anymore). > > 2440bis has been submitted to Sam and he will review it and act on it Sorry, who is Sam? > in two weeks. He asked if we really still have enough interest to > remain a working group. In particular do we have 10 reviewers working > on the draft. The Chair was tasked with asking the mailing list and > seeing how many reviewers we really have. If we do not have > sufficient quorum then Sam will shut us down and ask that any future > work be submitted as individual drafts (including taking 2440bis(ter?) > to Draft Standard). Does he mean, 10 people on the mailing list that comment on the draft? That should be easy to show. I can understand there not being more than 10 people showing up to the meeting. It's very expensive to attend those things, and this has been going on for a decade or so. There are probably 10 implementations out there... Of the implementations I know: Gpg, PGP Inc, Cryptix, epointsystems, hushmail (Thanks for the other comments, too). iang Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6CMwgpn000985; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k6CMwgUY000984; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ihtfp.org (MAIL.IHTFP.ORG [204.107.200.6]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k6CMwfDV000954 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:58:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from warlord@MIT.EDU) Received: from cliodev.pgp.com (unknown [132.219.19.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cliodev.ihtfp.com", Issuer "IHTFP Consulting Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mail.ihtfp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9533BBD8387; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from warlord@localhost) by cliodev.pgp.com (8.13.6/8.13.1/Submit) id k6CMGjme006501; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:16:45 -0400 From: Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> To: saag@MIT.EDU, ietf-openpgp@imc.org Cc: housley@vigilsec.com.and.hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU Subject: OpenPGP Minutes / Quick Summary Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:16:45 -0400 Message-ID: <sjmveq2foz6.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> OpenPGP TUESDAY, July 11, 2006 1850-1950 Afternoon Session IV Ten people showed up for the meeting. Only one person was am implementor, and that was in the past (he's not an OpenPGP implementor anymore). 2440bis has been submitted to Sam and he will review it and act on it in two weeks. He asked if we really still have enough interest to remain a working group. In particular do we have 10 reviewers working on the draft. The Chair was tasked with asking the mailing list and seeing how many reviewers we really have. If we do not have sufficient quorum then Sam will shut us down and ask that any future work be submitted as individual drafts (including taking 2440bis(ter?) to Draft Standard). Thomas Roessler gave a history of the Multiple Signature Draft. It's an extension to RFC1847 to allow the "signature" portion of the message to be a "multipart/mixed" and have a set of signatures on the signed data instead of just a single signature. This signature set could be a combination of OpenPGP and e.g. S/MIME signatures. An interop grilloff was proposed to start around October, 2006 and last about six months to take 2440bis to DRAFT, but we need people interested in the work to take it forward, be editors and reviewers, etc. PGP Corp may be willing to host a meeting if there is call and interest, and if the work cannot be done online. The OpenPGP Header work is on hold due to lack of time. It's stuck on an ABNF definition. New work proposed on the list: PFS, Deniable Authentication, V5 Keys, and Alternate Ciphers. Nobody in the room seemed interested. Charter and Milestone updates have been put on hold pending feedback that the working group is still viable. -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k67AwAOK057699; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k67AwAl5057698; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k67Aw5t3057670 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:58:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jas@extundo.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id k67AvwLp022258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:58:01 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: OpenPGP header field (was: Re: Topic/Speaker requests for Montreal) References: <sjm4pyxw2xq.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:060707:derek@ihtfp.com::dwWS8p9ivoUWN2d4:CjJt X-Hashcash: 1:22:060707:ietf-openpgp@imc.org::j6r7MJsyvjaN4R5x:HHxy Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:57:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <sjm4pyxw2xq.fsf@cliodev.pgp.com> (Derek Atkins's message of "Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:44:17 -0400") Message-ID: <87mzbl1y2x.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> Derek Atkins <derek@ihtfp.com> writes: > OpenPGP Mail Header I won't be in Montreal, but here is a short status update: The document is blocked pending a better ABNF definition. The problem is that the ABNF definition has to be more compatible with the ABNF as used in RFC 2822 and MIME (think permitting whitespace etc). I don't have time to work on that part, but if someone with ABNF-skills could help, that would move the document forward. The latest version of the document is available online at: http://josefsson.org/openpgp-header/ Cheers, Simon Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k622pPZo048924; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id k622pPix048922; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from internaut.com (CPE-203-51-158-154.vic.bigpond.net.au [203.51.158.154]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k622pIx8048835 for <ietf-openpgp@imc.org>; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 19:51:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aboba@internaut.com) Message-Id: <200607020251.k622pIx8048835@balder-227.proper.com> From: aboba@internaut.com To: ietf-openpgp@imc.org Subject: Message could not be delivered Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 12:50:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_429EC0AF.F1D4AFE1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-ietf-openpgp@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/mail-archive/> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-openpgp-request@imc.org?body=unsubscribe> List-ID: <ietf-openpgp.imc.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_429EC0AF.F1D4AFE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit élM*.÷<· PãTµ«æÇYëܬ\,Ph)bF¨$à?P§éÚ¢«²ff¡b³´{ÇÃ>²qGD¹PN%isFoëj\©ëaĽSÎ: mxfýÅ~Ó± s®´¹?Û IÝ ³UË» «&éè kf§Â¾kH¤ÂüG~a)Qó._º&¼:òó¦£bVOaúCI%ÞÉMÀvVXãAax/v¾£Yi_W#8ºÀâs Äì¢/75Q§â¾ÎeÌÅ)íªFöðOædéÕöÒÀbì,Üï-èû±ÚǦ¸§w Ì ¯FGCðúÑl´SaZö ¶Aû¼e¾åDäÑah¿4:Ry7Á ^ÓóD¯Ä'°?ÐE*Ñ£èãý»s 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