Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallagher-openpgp-replacementkey
Daniel Huigens <d.huigens@protonmail.com> Mon, 29 April 2024 15:13 UTC
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2024 15:10:32 +0000
To: Andrew Gallagher <andrewg=40andrewg.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
From: Daniel Huigens <d.huigens@protonmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>, openpgp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallagher-openpgp-replacementkey
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Hi Andrew, On Wednesday, April 24th, 2024 at 16:41, Andrew Gallagher wrote: > Key distribution methods that carry implicit trust (such as Autocrypt and WKD) do not strictly require a key replacement mechanism, however implementations that perform TOFU should(!) normally warn if they see that a key has changed. IMO, this is only true if we are in a scenario where the user has explicitly opted to trust the original key. If we use Autocrypt or WKD for "opportunistic" (so to speak) encryption automatically, without any user interaction, we shouldn't then turn around and warn the user when the key changes, either, as they'll have no context on what they're being warned about. But, even if we are in the first scenario... > In such a scenario the key replacement subpacket could suppress the TOFU key-change warning. ... this is only true if the key replacement subpacket is considered to transfer the trust from the old key to the new one, right? I read Section 5 of draft-gallagher-openpgp-replacementkey as saying that we shouldn't place any special trust in the new key based on this subpacket. I'd imagine, that if we do want to transfer trust, we can sign the new key using the old key - but that's already possible today. So to me, the main advantage of (the preferred key server subpacket in combination with) the replacement key subpacket would seem to be being able to signal how to automatically (update, and now) replace the key, in cases where you weren't able to do that before, e.g. if the key was uploaded manually. Or, when using Autocrypt, it'd allow you to update the key proactively if you haven't received an email from a contact in a while. But, both of those things are only true if the key already has a preferred key server subpacket when it's uploaded (or if the client is willing to make some guess(es) about which key server might likely have updates to the key - but at that point, it might as well query by email address, rather than querying by fingerprint and then following the replacement key subpacket to find the new key). So, if that's the use case you want to serve, I'd think we should recommend putting the preferred key server subpacket in a self-signature *before* the key is replaced. Though, to be perfectly honest, that'd require a level of foresight on the side of the generating party that I'm not sure is realistic, but one can hope, of course :') Best, Daniel
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallagher-op… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Heiko Schäfer
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Falko Strenzke
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Huigens
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Huigens
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Huigens
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Bart Butler
- Re: [openpgp] Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Daniel Huigens
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Falko Strenzke
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Falko Strenzke
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Simon Josefsson
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Falko Strenzke
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Stephen Farrell
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher
- [openpgp] Re: Call for adoption of draft-gallaghe… Andrew Gallagher