Re: [OPS-AREA] Q: Why no open [e-mail] mailing list ?

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Thanks, Andy, inline
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:25:04AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> IMO email is not the greatest way to help people figure out YANG.

Thats probably true for many if not most IETF technologies. I was only
claiming it would be extremely helpful to have instead of not having it.
In-person discussions or online meeting calls for example are often btter too ;-)

> I remember discussing the idea with the ADs in the past about moving
> RFC 8407 online, and updating it often as needed. (As opposed to recording 
> another yang-next issue and forgetting about it).

No reason not to start such an effort yourself. Alas, our tooling is not
ideal to make it easy. I wouldn' recommend codimd as it does not allow
to asily undo changes, which leaves our trac wiki, which is ok, but just
a good amount of work to convert the rfc first into the format and
be somewhat diligent on having a good changelog.

>  Maybe an online IETF YANG FAQ would help.

This one ? https://trac.ietf.org/trac/netmod/wiki/YANG_FAQ

Neith of these type of wiki pages are IMHO a good reason to NOT have a mailing list though.

> FYI...
> I posted this email to yang-doctors on May 5 and got no response...
> 
>  Hi,
> 
> I know Benoit tried very hard to make the IETF proactive and
> engage the user and tools community.  He actually used to do
> the stuff below in f2f meetings on Sunday sessions at the IETF
> 
> I notice that the YANG doctor review process is very heavyweight,
> scarce resources, and very official.

Sure. WHich is exactly why i suggested to add the simple options which _may_
help mor with self-help.

> What if we proactively headed off bad YANG usage before it got to the YD
> review?
> 
> What if we had a FAQ on good YANG usage, and a WEB site so people
> could submit questions to the YANG doctors about their modules.
> Each question becomes another entry in the FAQ.

Sure. For both of this we need easy options for more participants to
contribute and help each other. Did i say mailing list ?

> It should be open to any YANG developer, even vendors, not just all SDOs.
> Sponsors should get a small logo on the Sponsors tab.
> If it cannot be hosted by the IETF than maybe a new WEB site can be created
> for it.

There is nothing in our IETF processes that would prohibit anyone to participate.

> Is there any interest in such a project?
> 
> I have found that if you steer people into good design and
> don't make them start over then they will just do it.
> Now if we could only get people to design the data model before they start
> writing it....

;-)

Cheers
    Toerless

> Cheers
> >     Toerless
> >
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OPS-AREA mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-area
> >

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