Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD

Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Mon, 01 July 2019 10:26 UTC

Return-Path: <lear@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: opsawg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97313120071; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.501
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8jKoFMqnHAER; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D53912001A; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=30539; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1561976761; x=1563186361; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=NBRXP+VQ30fvYdQytwg14cidCtRPNjYyHGjOwLtMUg8=; b=FKsePs1AQQbUBL3IkpdUYYP1WQrzDgEL6dVsfex2M8YQoVMgugKx7JGU VYwaTOw7zFoxXHjB4XUDi3Q9CYq8PQv8Xwhoj0JD0XdfKb7LSLEaOIsG8 OOZJD+8SPgKHWZkvZch/Y8YduPHQEnbKLyF6KAhA6gkfLptnUq/G4NVR2 M=;
X-Files: signature.asc : 195
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BVAAAB3xld/xbLJq1lGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBZ4EVgWyBBCEHhB2Ie4wImm0CBwEBAQkDAQEfEAEBhEACgyU?= =?us-ascii?q?4EwEDAQEEAQECAQVtijcMhUoBAQEDASNRBQULCQIOCiABBgMCAkYRBhMbgwc?= =?us-ascii?q?BgXsPCIgkm2uBMoVHhGkQgTSBUYolgX+BOB+CHi4+glaBWBI6glQygiYEjAo?= =?us-ascii?q?zh0BalVgJghiCH4ELgymNJxuDF4oUij6UEViBeoJXiBCDCQIEBgUCFYFnIYF?= =?us-ascii?q?YMxoIGxVlAYJBCTWCCoNqilU9AzCPCQEB?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.63,439,1557187200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="13803106"
Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 01 Jul 2019 10:25:59 +0000
Received: from [10.61.163.11] ([10.61.163.11]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x61APvvq012158 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:25:57 GMT
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Message-Id: <230EB786-36AB-4E79-A6DD-20278E895763@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6AEA70B0-73A8-435F-A99B-2ED61626EACD"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 12:25:56 +0200
In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC8F3@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com>
Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "mud@ietf.org" <mud@ietf.org>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BC8F3@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.163.11, [10.61.163.11]
X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/opsawg/6PNez7rAZD1GLqRlfkN9tbfzs6o>
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD
X-BeenThere: opsawg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: OPSA Working Group Mail List <opsawg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/opsawg>, <mailto:opsawg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/opsawg/>
List-Post: <mailto:opsawg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:opsawg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg>, <mailto:opsawg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 10:26:05 -0000

Qin and others:

Just to get the ball rolling, I’ve posted today draft-lear-opsawg-mud-controller-candidates-00.

I think this should help the discussion.

Eliot

> On 1 Jul 2019, at 10:23, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:
> 
> 发件人: Eliot Lear [mailto:lear@cisco.com <mailto:lear@cisco.com>]
> 发送时间: 2019年7月1日 15:52
> 收件人: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com <mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
> 抄送: opsawg@ietf.org <mailto:opsawg@ietf.org>; mud@ietf.org <mailto:mud@ietf.org>
> 主题: Re: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:20, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com <mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>> wrote:
> 
> 发件人: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org>] 代表 Eliot Lear
> 发送时间: 2019年6月24日 17:48
> 收件人: opsawg@ietf.org <mailto:opsawg@ietf.org>; mud@ietf.org <mailto:mud@ietf.org>
> 主题: [OPSAWG] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> A few of us are just trying to put out an initial draft that addresses one gap in MUD (there are several).  In a MUD file one can say that one wants to access a controller in two ways: either "my-controller” meaning a controller that services devices of a particular MUD URL or a “controller” class that services devices based on a particular class name of controller.
> 
> In either case, right now the administrator has to manually know and populate information, to say - some device 1.2.3.4 is a controller, either for MUD URL https://example.com/mud <https://example.com/mud> or a class http://example.com/mudclass1 <http://example.com/mudclass1>.  That can be laborious.  To assist, we are examining ways to have a controller declare itself as a candidate controller.
> 
> [Qin]: Since MUD in RFC8520 has already specify DNS extension and DHCP extension, why not configure MUD manager with controller’s declaration? So the RESTFUL interface can be defined between NMS and controller, if my understanding is correct.
> I believe this is network initiated solution, you might have client initiated solution, but probably more complicated than network initiated solution.
> 
> Can you say a few more words?  I’m not sure I’m quite following you.
> [Qin]: What I am suggesting is NMS preconfigures the MUD manager with controller’s declaration information, during DHCP process or DNS process, the controller’s declaration can be returned
> To the router or switch between the thing and MUD manager or return to the thing, the router or the thing can access controller through controller delclartion.
> 
> If the MUD manager also needs to be advertised to the thing, DHCP Discovery or DNS process can be leveraged. In this case, NMS needs to preconfigure DHCP server with MUD manager information.
> 
> Eliot
> 
> 
>  That at least provides a hint to the administrator that this particular device is capable of serving in a particular role.
> 
> To make that declaration, the device must-
> Form the declaration;
> Find the MUD manager; and
> Send it.
> 
> Forming the declaration is easy: we can make this a YANG grouping and then place it in various spots.
> 
> Finding the MUD manager depends on one question:
> Was the device built to be a controller or is it a general purpose device that has an app that is intended to be a controller?
> 
> If the device was built to be a controller, we can simply cram the declaration into that devices own MUD file as an extension.  If the device is a general purpose computer, things get a bit more interesting.  In this case we have two choices:
> 
> Either create a MUD file that points somewhere internally - this doesn’t seem very plug and play.
> Make the declaration directly to the MUD manager.
> 
> I’m going to focus on the latter for the moment.  It is easy enough to create a RESTful interface for this purpose, but it requires a mechanism to discovered the MUD manager, which up until now has been an internal part of the network infrastructure.
> 
> Let me call this out plainly: letting the app itself directly call the MUD manager requires that the MUD manager itself become exposed to the user infrastructure, which is a change.
> 
> One possibility to address this is to incorporate the new RESTful endpoint into an ANIMA BRSKI join registrar, which may already be exposed.  But that requires that ANIMA BRSKI be in play, which it may not.
> 
> My thinking is that we do this work in two stages.  First handle the easy case, which is the MUD file extension, and then figure out how to do the app version of this.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Eliot
>