Re: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt

Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> Tue, 15 October 2019 03:59 UTC

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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: "daniel@olddog.co.uk" <daniel@olddog.co.uk>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework.authors@ietf.org" <draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework.authors@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 03:59:10 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
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Hi Dan,

Thank you very much for your clarification.
Now I understand your proposal is a requirement for the policy mechanism to enable the automation of the closed loop IFIT. So the IFIT specific policy models could be worked.
It's a valid and interesting topic for future work.

Tianran

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel King [mailto:dk@danielking.net] On Behalf Of
> daniel@olddog.co.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 4:14 AM
> To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework.authors@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
> 
> Hi Tianran,
> 
> Let me expand on the thought I was having.
> 
> Is it possible, and useful, to develop a telemetry policy model that would
> define a set of telemetry primitives that the iFIT application would send
> to the iFIT controller? In other words, how might I automate the request from
> an iFIT application by using some policy language that would scope the type
> of analysis requested, constrain the telemetry mechanism applied and provide
> potential success factors:
> 
> 1. What to observe?
> 2. What to collect?
> 3. Where and which triggers to set?
> 4. Where to store?
> 5. How much data to store?
> 6. When to stop collecting?
> 
> Taking the first insight ("What to observe?"), this could expand to something
> like (not exhaustive):
> 
> +-What to observe?
>    +-Anomalies
>       +-Loops
>       +-Congestion
>       +-High Latency
>       +-High Loss
>       +-Unexpected Traffic Increase
>       +-Etc.
>    +-Events
>       +-Low Link Utilisation
>       +-Low Node Utilisation
>       +-Unexpected Path
>       +-Path Performance Degradation
>       +-Etc.
>    +-Data Collection Filters
>       +-Flow/Packet Sample Rate
>       +-Interface/Port Info
>       +-Queue Info
>       +-Metadata Info
>       +-Timestamps
>       +-Drop Condition/Reason
> 
> Now to be clear, I am not advocating draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework would
> detail the model and parameters, just that it's a Framework I-D and if you
> think this capability would be useful you might list this capability as
> high-level requirement. Potentially existing IETF proposals/documents could
> be used for the solution, I did have a search previously but could not find
> anything specific that might be suitable. Perhaps a new document that refers
> back to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework could be created if current no
> suitable model/tree is found.
> 
> Another aspect of the draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework that I was thinking
> about was security, and specifically how to manage what is set, when its
> triggered and who and what has access/may consume to the iFIT data. It seems
> a compromised iFIT platform could accomplish some pretty nasty DDOS on the
> forwarding plane of the network, and the data collectors themselves. I could
> draft some text for Security section if you think it's useful.
> 
> BR, Dan.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> Sent: 09 October 2019 07:34
> To: daniel@olddog.co.uk; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework.authors@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> Could you please help to clarify this?
> > (3) Additional Challenge - Have you considered a model-driven
> > telemetry API from the iFIT framework that could expose network
> > performance to external applications? Maybe something along the lines of:
> >
> > >>
> >    o  C6: Development of simplified iFIT telemetry primitives and model,
> >       including: telemetry data (e.g., nodes, links, ports, paths, flows,
> >       timestamps) query primitives. These may be used by an API-based
> >       telemetry service for external applications to iFIT, for
> >       monitoring end-to-end latency measurement of
> >       network paths and application latency calculation via the iFIT
> >       framework.
> > <<
> 
> What do you mean by model-driven telemetry API? What's the difference from
> other APIs?
> Do you actually mean to define information/data models?
> So the IPFIX template, YANG model, or proto file.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tianran
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > daniel@olddog.co.uk
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 3:48 PM
> > To: opsawg@ietf.org
> > Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework.authors@ietf.org
> > Subject: [OPSAWG] Comments for draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
> >
> > Dear Authors,
> >
> > Please find some comments, thoughts and suggestions for
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05
> >
> > Overall, a really useful document and something I hope the WG can
> progress.
> > There are many in-band/in-situ OAM documents currently floating around
> > in at least four IETF WGs, so a document that helps coordinate the
> > discussion would be very valuable.
> >
> > General Comments
> >
> > (1) Abstract - The scope is clear, but the intention of this document
> > could be clarified. You might rephrase as:
> >
> > >>
> >    For efficient network operation, most operators rely on traditional
> >    Operation, Administration and Maintenance (OAM) methods, which
> >    include proactive and reactive techniques, running in active and
> >    passive modes. As networks increase in scale they become more
> >    susceptible to hardware and software failures, and misconfiguration
> >    errors.
> >
> >    With the advent of programmable data-plane emerging "on-path" OAM
> >    techniques, such as flow telemetry,  provide unprecedented insight
> >    and fast notification of network issues (e.g., jitter, increased
> >    latency, packet loss, significant bit error variations, and unequal
> >    load-balancing.
> >
> >    In-situ Flow Information Telemetry (iFIT), would provide a method
> >    for efficiently applying underlying on-path flow telemetry
> >    techniques, applicable across various network environments.
> >
> >    This document outlines an iFIT framework, which enumerates several
> >    critical functional components and describes how these components
> >    are assembled together to achieve a complete and closed-loop
> >    working solution for on-path flow telemetry.
> > <<
> >
> > (2) Use of "Application-aware network" - We may need to be careful
> > with this the usage of this word. It already has a well-used meaning
> > in the context of Cloud and SDN. If you are happy with the general
> > description, we could continue to use "application-aware networking",
> > but we should add a definition, such as:
> >
> > >>
> >    Future networks must also support application-aware networking.
> >    Application-aware networking is an emerging industry term and
> >    typically used to describe the capacity of an intelligent network to
> >    maintain current information about user and application connections
> >    that use network resources and, as a result, the operator is able to
> >    optimize the network resource usage and monitoring to ensure
> >    application and traffic optimality.  <<
> >
> > (3) Additional Challenge - Have you considered a model-driven
> > telemetry API from the iFIT framework that could expose network
> > performance to external applications? Maybe something along the lines of:
> >
> > >>
> >    o  C6: Development of simplified iFIT telemetry primitives and model,
> >       including: telemetry data (e.g., nodes, links, ports, paths, flows,
> >       timestamps) query primitives. These may be used by an API-based
> >       telemetry service for external applications to iFIT, for
> >       monitoring end-to-end latency measurement of
> >       network paths and application latency calculation via the iFIT
> >       framework.
> > <<
> >
> > (4) Security - I think this section requires significantly more text
> > as I can think of numerous issues that will need to be considered, or
> > at least highlighting  best practices and considerations discussed in
> > other documents. I started working on a much more comprehensive
> > security section, I will send this to the authors directly (or the
> > list if you prefer) over the next few days.
> >
> > (5) Please find the edits, typos, NITs, suggested text in the attached
> > documents:
> >
> > o draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05-review.txt -
> > https://github.com/danielkinguk/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework/blob/
> > ma
> > ster
> > /draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05-review.txt
> > o draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05-review-diff.html -
> > https://github.com/danielkinguk/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework/blob/
> > ma
> > ster
> > /draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05-review-diff.html
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> > BR, Dan.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: I-D-Announce <i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> > internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: 26 September 2019 18:29
> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : In-situ Flow Information Telemetry Framework
> >         Authors         : Haoyu Song
> >                           Zhenbin Li
> >                           Tianran Zhou
> >                           Fengwei Qin
> >                           Huanan Chen
> >                           Jaewhan Jin
> >                           Jongyoon Shin
> > 	Filename        : draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05.txt
> > 	Pages           : 16
> > 	Date            : 2019-09-26
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    Unlike the existing active and passive OAM techniques, the emerging
> >    on-path flow telemetry techniques provide unmatched visibility into
> >    user traffic, showing great application potential not only for
> >    today's network OAM but also for future's automatic network
> >    operation.  Summarizing the current industry practices that addresses
> >    the deployment challenges and application requirements, we provide a
> >    closed-loop framework, named In-situ Flow Information Telemetry
> >    (iFIT), for efficiently applying a family of underlying on-path flow
> >    telemetry techniques in various network environments.  The framework
> >    enumerates several key architectural components and describes how
> >    these components are assembled together to achieve a complete and
> >    closed-loop working solution for on-path flow telemetry.  Following
> >    such a framework allows better scalability, fosters application
> >    innovations, and promotes both vertical and horizontal
> >    interoperability.
> >
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework
> > -0
> > 5
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-05
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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