Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD

Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Wed, 26 June 2019 21:30 UTC

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From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:30:24 +0200
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Cc: opsawg@ietf.org, mud@ietf.org, "M. Ranganathan" <mranga@gmail.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Mud] Declaring something to be a controller in MUD
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> On 26 Jun 2019, at 23:26, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
> 
> 
> Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>> There will ALWAYS be a need for an administrator in the enterprise
>>>> case.  But maybe with the options above we can ease the consumer burden
>>>> over time.  In the consumer case, you might want an app for initial
>>>> device admission control anyway, no?  Can we not rely on that
>>>> interaction as an approval step in this instance?
>>> 
>>> I think we'd all like to have a generic app (with an RFC standard API) that
>>> can onboard any device and can do admission control for any controller.
>>> I think this is what you are saying as well.
> 
>> Yes, but I was saying a bit more.  Do you expect to fully automate the
>> inclusion of a controller into a controller class in the home?  How do
>> you envision the full flow looking like?
> 
> I expect to fully automate the inclusion of a controller into that class,
> yes.   I'd like to automate the device into the class too.
> 
> Perhaps your point is that since the controller has to onboard (at the
> layer-7) the device in anyway: can we leverage that?

For devices that are designed as controllers, yes.

> 
>>> yes, this is exactly what I was thinking about.
>>> 
>>> Would "mud-urls" / "include" be mutually exclusive?
> 
>> I don’t see why it would have to be.  But now let’s back up, just to
>> make sure we’re not digging too deep a hole for the application case
>> that Ranga wants to get to.  If the MUD protected device is declaring
>> MUD URLs for MUD controllers and that is what all of this would boil
>> down to, then the app case is really a completely separate mechanism,
>> because apps don’t have MUD-URLs.
> 
>> If we do a two-stage, then we need a completely separate draft for apps
>> anyway, but I was hoping for some commonality.
> 
> Hmm.
> 

Indeed.  But let’s not get wrapped around the axle here.  I’ll try and have something out for the controller case, and then let’s talk about the other in Montreal.  Ok?

Eliot