Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-04
"Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com> Thu, 24 September 2020 12:41 UTC
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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, opsawg <opsawg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-04
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2020 12:41:29 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/opsawg/ayoRQPFWf6BX7kDCr-G-ntS8rlE>
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-04
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Hi Med, Thanks for the final updates. I've requested IETF LC on -06. Regards, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > Sent: 21 September 2020 09:12 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; opsawg <opsawg@ietf.org> > Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org > Subject: RE: AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-04 > > Hi Bob, > > Thank you for double checking. > > I confirm that your initial AD review message I received was truncated > (see attached). > > Will update the draft to take into account the missing part. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] > > Envoyé : vendredi 18 septembre 2020 19:21 > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; opsawg > > <opsawg@ietf.org> > > Cc : draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org > > Objet : RE: AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation- > > framework-04 > > > > Hi Med, > > > > The changes that you have made look good. But I had some comments > > at the end of my review email that it doesn't look like you have > > responded to, or actioned. Hence, I'm wondering if my review email > > might have been truncated, or the end of it missed (from "Also, I > > ...") onwards (copied below). > > > > > > A.3.1.1. Schema Mount > > > > That capability does not cover design time. > > > > This sentence is unclear on its own. Perhaps either expand it or > > remove it. > > > > Also, I wouldn't regard schema mount as necessarily being specific > > to device models, and could be used for network and service YANG > > models as well. Although there may not be a good place to put it. > > > > 14. > > A.3.2. Device Models: Samples > > > > As above, having a section for interfaces/interface management would > > be useful. I also think think it would be good to have a section > > for device management (e.g. system, nacm) > > > > I would potentially reorder the list of modules: > > - Move Core Routing up, near the top of the list (above BGP) > > - L2VPN (next to) but before EVPN > > - Perhaps move BGP down, and having routing policy next to it > > might be helpful > > - NAT and Stateless Address Sharing could perhaps move down. > > > > > > Editorial nits to check: > > > > 1. Network Operator -> network operator? > > 2. Perhaps "it can accommodate modules" -> "it can also accommodate > > modules"? > > 3. "follow top-down approach" -> "follow a top-down approach" > > 4. "validated during the implementation time" -> "validated during > > implementation" > > 5. For Diagram A2, possibly could have just used the full names and > > not requried the legend. > > 6. "[RFC8345] with TE topologies specifics." -> "[RFC8345] with TE > > topology related content." > > 7. "Network Topology Models" -> Network Topologies Model"? > > 8. "TE Topology Models" => "TE Topology Model"? > > 9. "Layer 3 Topology Models:" -> "Layer 3 Topology Model:" > > 10. "Layer 3 topologies specifics" -> "Layer 3 topology specifics" > > 11. "Layer 2 Topology Models:" -> "Layer 2 Topology Model:" > > 12. "Layer 2 topologies specifics" -> "Layer 2 topology specifics" > > 13. Figure 4: "Config Validate" -> "Config Validation", and realign > > "Monitoring" > > > > Please can you check? > > > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > > Sent: 08 September 2020 13:28 > > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; opsawg > > <opsawg@ietf.org> > > > Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: AD review for > > > draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-04 > > > > > > Rob, > > > > > > FWIW, an updated version with changes to address your review is > > > available > > > online: > > > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-opsawg-model- > > > automation-framework-05.txt > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf- > > opsawg-model- > > > automation-framework/ > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf- > > opsawg- > > > model-automation-framework > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-opsawg- > > model- > > > automation-framework-05 > > > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf- > > opsawg-model- > > > automation-framework-05 > > > > > > Please let us know if any of your comments is still pending. Thank > > you. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] > > > > Envoyé : lundi 7 septembre 2020 16:35 À : Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > > > <rwilton@cisco.com>; opsawg <opsawg@ietf.org> Cc : > > > > draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org > > > > Objet : RE: AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation- > > > > framework-04 > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > Thank you for the detailed review. > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > I let my co-authors further comment. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > De : Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] Envoyé : > > > > vendredi > > > > > 4 septembre 2020 19:22 À : opsawg <opsawg@ietf.org>; > > > > > draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation- > > > > > framework.all@ietf.org > > > > > Objet : AD review for > > > > > draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework- > > > > 04 > > > > > > > > > > Apologies for the lengthy delay in performing the AD review. > > > > > > > > > > I found that this document to be well written so I would like > > to > > > > thank > > > > > the authors, WG, and doc shepherd for that. My more > > significant > > > > > comments relate to questions on the scope of this > > architecture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More significant comments: > > > > > > > > > > 1. By "Data Model" does this document mean "YANG data model"? > > And > > > > if > > > > > so, does it take this meaning all through this document, or > > only > > > > some > > > > > of the time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] "Data Model" is used as a generic term as per > > rfc3444#section-4. > > > > We are using "YANG data models" or "YANG module" when we wanted > > to > > > > be more specific about the DM flavour. > > > > > > > > I double checked the text to make sure this is consistently used > > > > along the document. Updated some occurrences in the text where > > the > > > > use of "YANG data model" is more accurate. > > > > > > > > > 2. Generically, service data models are not necessarily > > written in > > > > > YANG (e.g., I think that MEF are defining them using OpenAPI). > > > > > So, related to (1), is this architecture intended to be tied > > to > > > > > only service models defined in YANG, or be more broadly > > applicable? > > > > > > > > [Med] We don't require the service models to be YANG-modelled > > (see > > > > for instance the example depicted in Figure 2). That's said, the > > use > > > > of YANG in all levels would ease mapping operations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. This architecture seems to quite strictly represent 3 > > layers > > > > > (service, network, device). Does it envisage that these > > layers > > > > > may themselves be deconstructed? E.g. a customer service can > > be > > > > > constructed from underlying services > > > > > > > > [Med] Yes, that's not excluded. The architecture can be > > "recursive" > > > > (Such as rfc8597#section-3.1.3). > > > > > > > > (e.g., as discussed in section > > > > > 3.1, but more as an East-West relationship). Similarly, > > device > > > > models > > > > > could also be deconstructed, e.g., if the dataplane is > > decoupled > > > > from > > > > > the control plane, or if a device itself acts as a controller > > > > managing > > > > > other devices. > > > > > > > > [Med] The document does not make assumptions on the organic > > > > structure or where the functions are provided. Having a > > controller > > > > co-located with other YANG-controlled functions is not excluded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. My minimal understanding of the MEF LSO architecture was > > that > > > > they > > > > > put quite a lot of emphasis on East-West models, probably at > > the > > > > > service layer. Is this effectively the same as what is > > described > > > > > in Figure 1 in section 3.1? > > > > > > > > [Med] Inter-domain interactions between two services or two > > adjacent > > > > networks are not shown in Figure 1. This figure focuses mainly > > on > > > > the interface between a service and an underlying network. > > > > > > > > Does the potential existence of these East- > > > > > West APIs need to be described in any more detail? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] A network can act as a "customer" and request services > > from > > > > other networks. The peer network will then follow the levels > > > > depicted in the architecture. This is for example hinted in this > > > > text for > > > > example: > > > > > > > > o allow customers (or Network Operators) to dynamically > > adjust the > > > > network resources based on service requirements as > > described in > > > > Service Models (e.g., Figure 2) and the current network > > > > performance information described in the telemetry > > modules. > > > > > > > > We can add some more text if needed. > > > > > > > > Section 4.3 discusses how multi-domain mapping can be handled at > > the > > > > server level. This assumes that the interaction is not between > > the > > > > domains themselves but driven by the service layer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Minor comments/clarifications: > > > > > > > > > > Section 3.1: Data Models: Layering and Representation > > > > > > > > > > 5. Network Models are mainly network resource-facing modules; > > they > > > > > describe various aspects of a network infrastructure, > > including > > > > > devices and their subsystems, and relevant protocols > > operating > > > > > at the > > > > > link and network layers across multiple devices (e.g., > > network > > > > > topology and traffic-engineering tunnel modules). > > > > > > > > > > Would it be fair to say that Network Models might be protocol > > > > > specific, or might be generalized? If so, is that worth > > mentioning? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Network models may include some protocol-specific > > parameters. > > > > I'm neutral whether this needs to be mentioned in the text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. Re: DOTS & RFC 8783, I'm not sure how well the YANG model > > > > > defined in that drafts fits into the category of Service YANG > > model. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] RFC8783 defines the filtering service requested by a > > > > client/customers; how this request triggers the selection of the > > > > devices that need to be configured, the exact set of ACLs, and > > the > > > > enforcing of the ACLs in these devices is managed by other > > layers > > > > (RFC8519). From that perspective, we do think that the module in > > RFC > > > > 8783 satisfies the following from RFC8309: > > > > > > > > "Details > > > > included in the service model include a description of the > > > > service as > > > > experienced by the customer, but not features of how that > > service > > > > is > > > > delivered or realized by the service provider. " > > > > > > > > > 7. Pipe vs hose vs funnel. Are these terms, or do they need > > to > > > > > be, defined somewhere? In particular it is not obvious to me > > what > > > > > the distinction is between pipe vs hose. > > > > > > > > [Med] "pipe" means that only point-to-point communications are > > > > allowed while "hose" means that communications from one to N is > > allowed. > > > > > > > > We can text to explain this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Appendix A: > > > > > 8. Would it be useful to discuss or reference YANG Catalog (as > > a > > > > > source of querying YANG models), the public YANG github > > > > > repository, > > > > or > > > > > YANG module tags as a method of organizing YANG models? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Good point. Will consider adding some text. > > > > > > > > > 9. > > > > > o Tunnel identities to ease manipulating extensions to > > specific > > > > > tunnels [RFC8675]. > > > > > > > > > > I found this sentence slightly unclear. Perhaps it could be > > > > reworded? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fair point. Updated to : > > > > > > > > " o Tunnel identities: [RFC8675] defines a collection of YANG > > > > identities used > > > > as interface types for tunnel interfaces." > > > > > > > > > 10. > > > > > o Generic Policy Model: > > > > > > > > > > The Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions (SUPA) policy- > > based ... > > > > > > > > > > It does not like this draft is going anywhere, and I'm not > > > > > convinced that it is really helpful to reference it here. Or, > > if > > > > > it must be referenced, it should be caveated accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fair enough. I tend to agree with you. > > > > > > > > > 11. > > > > > A.3. Device Models: Samples > > > > > > > > > > I think that it would be helpful if this diagram, and the list > > in > > > > > section A3.2, had references to the interface YANG module. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Point taken. > > > > > > > > > 12. > > > > > A.3.1. Model Composition > > > > > > > > > > o Device Model > > > > > > > > > > [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-device-model] presents ... > > > > > > > > > > Again, I'm not sure that this is a helpful reference, given > > that > > > > > the approach defined in this draft did not gain traction, and > > > > > instead, a more loosely coupled structure was preferred. > > E.g., I > > > > > see that tags (and arguably schema mount) solve this > > > > > organizational problem in a more flexible way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fair point. > > > > > > > > > 13. > > > > > A.3.1.1. Schema Mount > > > > > > > > > > That capability does not cover design time. > > > > > > > > > > This sentence is unclear on its own. Perhaps either expand it > > or > > > > > remove it > > > > > > > > [Med] OK. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you.
- [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-model-au… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… Qin Wu
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [OPSAWG] AD review for draft-ietf-opsawg-mode… Rob Wilton (rwilton)