Re: [OPSAWG] Last Call: <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-06.txt> (A Framework for Automating Service and Network Management with YANG) to Informational RFC

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 30 September 2020 03:07 UTC

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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
Cc: "draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAADA346BE@dggeml531-mbs.china.huawei.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 16:07:42 +1300
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Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Last Call: <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-06.txt> (A Framework for Automating Service and Network Management with YANG) to Informational RFC
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On 30-Sep-20 14:49, Qin Wu wrote:
> Hi,
> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com] 
> 发送时间: 2020年9月30日 3:55
> 收件人: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; last-call@ietf.org
> 抄送: draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> 主题: Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework-06.txt> (A Framework for Automating Service and Network Management with YANG) to Informational RFC
> 
> Hi Med, see below...
> On 29-Sep-20 18:40, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>> Please see inline.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Med
>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com]
>>> Envoyé : mardi 29 septembre 2020 00:25 À : last-call@ietf.org Cc : 
>>> draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-framework.all@ietf.org;
>>> opsawg@ietf.org
>>> Objet : Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-opsawg-model-automation-
>>> framework-06.txt> (A Framework for Automating Service and Network 
>>> Management with YANG) to Informational RFC
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have a question for clarification, and then a comment.
>>>
>>> First, consider these extracts:
>>>
>>>> 5.1.  L2VPN/L3VPN Service Delivery
>>>>
>>>>    In reference to Figure 5, the following steps are performed to
>>>>    deliver the L3VPN service within the network management
>>> automation
>>>>    architecture defined in this document:
>>>>
>>>>    1.  The Customer requests to create two sites (as per service
>>>>        creation operation in Section 4.2.1)...
>>> ...
>>>> 5.2.  VN Lifecycle Management
>>>>
>>>>    In reference to Figure 7, the following steps are performed to
>>>>    deliver the VN service within the network management automation
>>>>    architecture defined in this document:
>>>>
>>>>    1.  Customer requests (service exposure operation in Section
>>> 4.1.1)
>>>>        to create 'VN' based on Access point...
>>> ...
>>>>    3.  The Customer exchanges connectivity-matrix on abstract node
>>> and
>>>>        explicit path using TE topology model with the
>>> orchestrator...
>>>
>>> In those examples, how does the customer "request" or "exchange"
>>> data? I assume this is intended to happen by software, rather than by 
>>> telefax.
>>
>> [Med] We hope this can be by software if we want to benefit from the automation in the full cycle but the approach still apply independently how a service request is captured. 
>>
>> We don't zoom that much on that interface because the document is more on the provider's side.
>>
>>> So what protocol is involved, and which entity on the customer side 
>>> is doing it?
>>
>> [Med] The component at the client side are generally represented as service ordering (see RFC 4176). That component may interact with the Order Handling at the provider side using a variety of means such as https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8921.txt (Section 5) or by offering a management interface to the customer, etc. 
> 
> Well, I'd rather see a standardised and generic solution to that problem, as noted in my reply to Adrian. But indeed, that is the requirement.
>  
>> Please let us know if you think that we need to add some text on this part.
> 
> I think it needs just a few words in section 3 or 4, even just to say that the mechanism is out of scope for this document.
> 
>>
>>>
>>>> 5.3.  Event-based Telemetry in the Device Self Management
>>>>
>>>>    In reference to Figure 8, the following steps are performed to
>>>>    monitor state changes of managed objects or resources in a
>>> network
>>>>    device and provide device self-management within the network
>>>>    management automation architecture defined in this document:
>>>>
>>>>    1.  To control which state a network device should be in or is
>>>>        allowed to be in at any given time, a set of conditions and
>>>>        actions are defined and correlated with network events
>>> (e.g.,
>>>>        allow the NETCONF server to send updates...
>>>
>>> Second, this is the first mention of NETCONF in the document, and the 
>>> only other mention is in the Security Considerations. I suggest that 
>>> there should be a short description of the role of NETCONF (and
>>> RESTCONF) earlier in the document, either in section 3 or more likely 
>>> in section 4 (Functional Blocks and Interactions).
>>
>> [Med] Point taken. We will also clarify that in some cases the use of YANG does not require NETCONF/RESTCONF. 
> 
> Thanks. (For example, draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution can serve for distributing YANG.)
> 
> [Qin]: Thanks Brian for heads up. I think what Med mean is YANG doesn't need to tie with NETCONF, or RESTCONF, it could be also work with gRPC.
> YANG is transport independent data modeling language.
> One motivation to write this draft is to focus on management plane approach and build fully automated YANG based system. I am not sure grasp can be used to distribute YANG.
> My impression of information distribution is used to distribute information between autonomic nodes in the data plane, that is not in the scope of this document,
> If my understanding is correct. 

Yes, that's correct. For example, network intent defined in YANG could be distributed.

> But I agree with you we could investigate how YANG, ANINMA, NETCONF work together. That's a very interesting topic.

Sure. We should come back to it as soon as the initial ANIMA document set is complete, which (fingers crossed) will not be too long now.

   Brian


> 
>     Brian
>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>    Brian Carpenter
>>
>>
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