Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7
Aniket Desai <adesai@opnet.com> Tue, 03 October 2006 18:01 UTC
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:53:50 -0400
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <ppe@cisco.com>
From: Aniket Desai <adesai@opnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, Issue 7
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I understand that usage of such a term in a draft is not a good idea. But to make the discussions as precise as a draft is very daunting, and we will stall if we did not take liberty of the ongoing context and tried to qualify something as a result. As Dr. Ogier has said, from a functional perspective, there are great similarities between a DR and MDR and hence it follows *naturally*. The term is not without a valid context. That said, I think this is stretching too far and I retract from this discussion. I believe that the following sentence would do: "OSPF MDR extends the functionality and capabilities of the OSPF broadcast interface". Sincerely, Aniket At 01:45 PM 10/3/2006, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: >Aniket > >Aniket Desai wrote: > >>Hi Padma, >> >>I know RFC 2119 very well. >> >>Let me cut and paste some sentences from RFC 3626 from the OLSR draft: >> >> The purpose of dividing the functioning of OLSR into a core >> functionality and a set of auxiliary functions is to provide a simple >> and easy-to-comprehend protocol >> >> Due to its proactive nature, the OLSR protocol has a natural control >> over the flow of its control traffic >> >>Now if I were to write an MDR draft and if I constructed a sentence as: >> >> The purpose of creating this MDR draft is to extend the >> OSPF's broadcast interface in a natural way. Details follow. >> >>How is it different from what is there in RFC 3626? As long as we >>understand the context in which we are talking, I think this term >>should be acceptable. You are always free to challenge the context. >In OSPF drafts you don't see natural, DC is not a natural extension, >nor is NSSA, nor are other features. They are just extensions. > >>I understand that the fuss was about the reference that MDRs were a >>natural way to extend OSPF for MANET. I agree that it was an >>aggressive overclaim. I am merely advocating putting it in its >>correct context; that is a *natural extension of broadcast DR >>interface*. I think that there should be a qualifying adjective >>before *extension*, because no one else has shown that there is any >>other way to extend a broadcast interface for MANETs. Hence the >>emphasis on natural. Please suggest if you would like to use >>another adjective instead of *natural*. >Why is it so important to put this adjective, would removing it >change the meaning of the functionality ? >I don't think so. >It's presence kind of open the debate - What is natural and what is not ? > >Extensions are just extensions and that should suffice. >Let's not add superfluous terms. > >Padma > >>Sincerely, >> >>Aniket >> >>At 12:46 PM 10/3/2006, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: >> >>>Aniket >>> >>> >>>Aniket Desai wrote: >>> >>>>At 12:01 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote: >>>> >>>>>For example, that is why Aniket and I have been >>>>>explaining why the MDR approach is a "natural extension". >>>>>This is a very important point, since once people understand >>>>>*why* we claim it is a "natural extension", they will understand >>>>>the MDR approach better. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>That is the point I have also made and I corroborate it. It >>>>should be acceptable to use the phrase that "an MDR is a natural >>>>extension of a broadcast DR". MDRs must be discussed in that >>>>context. Otherwise the whole point is lost in unimportant issues. >>>>As far as I understand, this debate is about scalability versus >>>>robustness, and I don't think anyone can claim that other >>>>solutions can achieve better scalability than MDR. The claim is >>>>only that MDRs lose in robustness what they achieve in >>>>scalability (which has to be seen anyway and can be discounted >>>>upfront for the simple reason that MDRs don't force you to use >>>>reduced adjacencies; MDRs give you the reduced adjacencies as a >>>>*gift* - but that is another discussion). The point is that MDRs >>>>do achieve something, which is scalability BECAUSE it naturally >>>>extends the broadcast DR. >>>> >>>>Thus if no one has any more objection to the usage of this term, >>>>I think it is perfectly legit for Dr. Ogier and others to continue using it. >>> >>> >>>This is a engineering forum and a scientific one. In IETF, we use precise >>>language - RFC 2119 for example. IMHO "Natural extension" does not >>>fit in aforementionned category. This term is too foggy, "natural" >>>has too many complex meaning in layman terms it is best avoided. I >>>don't understand why "natural" has to be here, in most drafts >>>"extension" is just sufficient. >>> >>> >>>Padma >>> >>> >>>>Sincerely, >>>> >>>>Aniket >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Ospf-manet mailing list >>>>Ospf-manet@ietf.org >>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf-manet _______________________________________________ Ospf-manet mailing list Ospf-manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf-manet
- [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, Issue… Aniket Desai
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Aniket Desai
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Aniket Desai
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Richard Ogier
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Aniket Desai
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Aniket Desai
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Richard Ogier
- RE: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Drake, John E
- Re: [Ospf-manet] Re: Ospf-manet Digest, Vol 11, I… Richard Ogier